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I'm in a local mom and pop pizza joint/party store last week waiting for my order when an employee walks in, goes behind the counter, grabs a pack of smokes, and goes into the kitchen area. It took me a second to notice the store name and logo on the back of his red hoodie so for a split second I thought he was some guy lifting a pack of cigarettes. This made me stop and think, at what point do you as a responsible concealed carrier stop blending and do something that would draw attention to yourself. Do you step in to stop something "minor" like shoplifting just because it might result in a conflict? I understand avoiding conflict, or de-escalating if conflict does occur, but where do we draw the line? At what point do you feel that avoiding conflict takes a backseat to doing the right thing? Just a thought that has been bouncing around in my head and I'm curious what others think.
 

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I think unless the person is armed and someone's life is in danger, report it to management. Hopefully, they will call the police. Stay long enough to give a good description.
 

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Assuming you are doing the 'right thing' can be turned around on you pretty quickly. Not every situation is black and white.
 
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When your life, or someone elses life is in danger. Your permit does not allow you to protect property with your weapon.
If you see somebody stealing and you want to confront them, go right ahead, but leave your gun in your pocket. We are not the cops.
 

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Unless you're an LEO--you're not an LEO! Call 911, notify management/employees, whatever, until someone's life or well being is placed in danger. Until then, it's someone else's material property and not my responsibility to put my life in risk.
 

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Are you willing to risk lawsuit or getting shot defending the property of a stranger, when you only have a suspicion of what is going on? Observe, and alert the employees, or the Police. I am not a Cop, and I don't pretend to be one.
 

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Unless human life is in jeopardy pulling your carry is not the right thing in any circumstance IMO, There are just too many variables, what if the cig guys pulls his carry because he looks up to a gun in his face. Bad day for everyone. Suppose you walked in on that very situation, who do you point your gun at? The variables go on and on and then take "Murphy's law" into account: LEO walks in on the 3 of you. Best to just keep your carry for the real need and let the guy have a smoke.
 
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I think unless the person is armed and someone's life is in danger, report it to management. Hopefully, they will call the police. Stay long enough to give a good description.
This about sums it up
 

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Smartphone camera works great for such instances to be able to give a description to the store owner, but certainly not worth getting into a confrontation over.
 

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... but where do we draw the line? At what point do you feel that avoiding conflict takes a backseat to doing the right thing?
At the point where we cease, as a society, penalizing good samaritans for stepping in and doing what's right, I imagine we'll have many, many more people doing exactly that.

For myself, I'm concerned enough about surviving encounters and being there in future for my family that I'm unwilling in most every "lesser" situation to get directly involved ... that is, by instead being a good witness, paying attention, calling in the cavalry when able. I'm perfectly willing to thwart a deadly situation that's (a) right in front of me and (b) where I know the facts of the situation (instead of merely having impressions about it, unknowing of who's the GG and who's the BG). But that's just me.

IMO ...

We're still only at ~2-3% of the adult-age carrying public actually carrying, perhaps even less when accounting for who doesn't carry all the time. That's not enough to make a huge reduction in the risk of finding a felon today. When we're at ~20-30% or more of the carrying population actually carrying, then I'll begin to believe we're nearing a time when it'll be commonplace for upstanding armed people to step in and be accepted for that being the commonly decent and right thing to do.
 

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I think unless the person is armed and someone's life is in danger, report it to management. Hopefully, they will call the police. Stay long enough to give a good description.
Lot's of good answers here but don't need to expound on it any further than this one. Life or death situations only...
 

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Even if someone's life is in danger, you better be CERTAIN of who is the BG and who is the GG! I read a report on here a year or so ago of an off-duty police officer who got involved in what he thought was a "life and death" situation and shot who he though was the BG. It turned out the "BG" he shot was actually an undercover drug enforcement agent and the "GG" he was fighting with was actually a BG drug dealer! Imagine how he felt when he learned he had killed a fellow LEO! So unless you have seen the entire situation from the beginning and KNOW without a doubt who the GG and who the BG are, you are best off by just calling 911 and being a good witness. I am not a LEO, nor am I a "sheepdog" out to protect the "sheep"! I carry a gun to protect myself and my family. Period! Now, if I was in a situation where things are clear cut like the theater shooting in Colorado or Sandy Hook, that is a different story. But things are rarely that clear cut. Just my .02.:yup:
 
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I went 40 yrs before carrying a gun. I have always been a 'first responder,' both personally and professionally (when I was a park ranger).

It has never had anything to do with a gun for me....I did what I could at the time, and what I felt was appropriate. I have responded a few times since carrying a gun, but no situation has required it (thankfully) and/or I wasnt carrying.

So in any situation, my first instinct is to verify the safety of the scene *in general* (meaning myself and others). Then consider whatever action is needed. My gun would not be my first response in most situations....I carry it for my personal safety and only then do I immediately consider if it is the appropriate response (is my hand on my firearm, am I weighing drawing that or pepper spray, etc).
 

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I'm in a local mom and pop pizza joint/party store last week waiting for my order when an employee walks in, goes behind the counter, grabs a pack of smokes, and goes into the kitchen area. It took me a second to notice the store name and logo on the back of his red hoodie so for a split second I thought he was some guy lifting a pack of cigarettes. This made me stop and think, at what point do you as a responsible concealed carrier stop blending and do something that would draw attention to yourself.
Are you in charge of security at the restaurant? Meaning shoplifting, kids running out on a check, teens too loud?

No?

Mind your own business! These are not ccw issues. They are business issues. If it's not your business, eat your pizza.
Hm. The way I read the reference to the "smokes" staffer was simply to point out what prompted the concept of blending in. Not that the OP was in any way contemplating taking down the "shoplifter/intruder" in the hoodie.
 

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When your life, or someone elses life is in danger. Your permit does not allow you to protect property with your weapon.
If you see somebody stealing and you want to confront them, go right ahead, but leave your gun in your pocket. We are not the cops.
It does in Texas...a person can use deadly force, BUT and that is a hug BUT, it needs to be tempered with a lot of common sense. Should someone fight over a pack of "smokes" or someone robbing a bank (no firearm seen) ? Big decisions while carrying a handgun...
 

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In ky there are specific cases arson murder rape forcible entry into another property where you legally can act with lethal force if nessacary.
That being said if I saw someone setting my neighbors house on fire thats one thing. A rape I witnessed and know for sure its a rape in progress likely will step in. A murder or attempted on someone else I know of course.

Stopping a shoplifting, nah the police need something to do around here. They might actually get to a store in town in time to do something about a shoplifting where out in the sticks its a forgone conclusion they wont make it anywhere near being in time to help.
 

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Hm. The way I read the reference to the "smokes" staffer was simply to point out what prompted the concept of blending in. Not that the OP was in any way contemplating taking down the "shoplifter/intruder" in the hoodie.
That's my take as well. Rather than "take down" or not "take down" I'd say that I would not confront at all (I wouldn't say, "Hey buddy, are those your smokes to take?") , and if I did call 911, the manager, take pix on my cel phone, etc. I would do it very, very carefully, so as not to be noticed. Why? Because I carry a gun, and that makes every confrontation a potential gunfight. I don't want the guy taking the smokes seeing me take his picture, and then get up in my face, threaten me, etc. to the point he's beating my head on the floor and I have to shoot him.

Too damn complicated for me, so in response to the OP question, I would "stay grey" over something like that. Let him take the smokes, none of my business. I'm not doing anything to call attention to myself for something like that, with the possibility it could escalate into a self defense situation. As thefts go, it's a minor one.
 

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My ccw instructor (active duty sheriff) said if mcdonalds is being robbed let them take the cash. Keep the circle of people your willing to protect with deadly force small and be a good witness.

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I'm in a local mom and pop pizza joint/party store last week waiting for my order when an employee walks in, goes behind the counter, grabs a pack of smokes, and goes into the kitchen area. It took me a second to notice the store name and logo on the back of his red hoodie so for a split second I thought he was some guy lifting a pack of cigarettes. This made me stop and think, at what point do you as a responsible concealed carrier stop blending and do something that would draw attention to yourself. Do you step in to stop something "minor" like shoplifting just because it might result in a conflict? I understand avoiding conflict, or de-escalating if conflict does occur, but where do we draw the line? At what point do you feel that avoiding conflict takes a backseat to doing the right thing? Just a thought that has been bouncing around in my head and I'm curious what others think.
I have no qualms about drawing attention to myself. By the same token, I'm not going to shoot someone over a pack of smokes. My reaction, therefore, lies somewhere in between.
 
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