If there is a database, I'm probably in it. I've filled out 20 or so ATF forms in the last 3 years for guns.
ATF breaking the law, again, tracking lawful gun owners.
ATF forgot to comply with policy, accidentally creating gun owner database - Personal Liberty®
They are supposed to delete records of the multiple purchase paperwork after 2 years if it hasn't been involved in a crime. They "forgot." Also, records from closed FFL's go to the ATF, and they've been keeping that stuff as well.
They are supposed to delete records of the multiple purchase paperwork after 2 years if it hasn't been involved in a crime. They "forgot." Also, records from closed FFL's go to the ATF, and they've been keeping that stuff as well.
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Our government is corrupt and does not obey the law or our Constitution.
The BATF should be disbanded and all guns laws repealed.
The BATF should be disbanded and all guns laws repealed.
Anyone who believes all the crap about the gov deleting ANY kind of records I question their sanity. They may be sealed but they are not gone.
Meanwhile, looking at LAC to find the bad guys, they are missing the -actual- badguys. Stupid; or cowardly? After all, LAC are so much safer to deal with than hardened bad guys.
Don't think it has anything to do with crime and pretty sure it's intentional. Does anyone think the giant NSA data center in Utah is there to protect our Liberty? Government overreach at its finest. Seems to be SOP these days.
Did you expect them to be trustworthy? Bureaucracy is always the same. They can get away with any kind of breach of freedom and decency because every person in the chain can say "getting rid of that is not part of my job description. ask someone else". By passing the buck they can get away with anything they want. Just look at the IRS...
THIS IS WHAT PRIVATE SALES (outlawed in my state now) AND 80% FRAMES/LOWERS ARE FOR.
THIS IS WHAT PRIVATE SALES (outlawed in my state now) AND 80% FRAMES/LOWERS ARE FOR.
I'm on that list, then. I've purchased two guns since December, although one was just a Marlin .22 rifle.
My 2 glocks and Mossberg tactical 500 would be on the list but my ARs and other rifles won't be traced to me.
You're foolish if you think the govt was only using 4473 for background checks.
Sent from my SM-G920V
You're foolish if you think the govt was only using 4473 for background checks.
Sent from my SM-G920V
Actually the ATF has been instructed by the current administration to ignore the law (what a surprise) and retain the aforementioned records.
This tracking will only get worse if the American people + the illegal immigrants who are allowed to vote illegally, put Clinton in office.
If this ain't a mess, it will do til' the mess get's here!!:aargh4::aargh4:
This tracking will only get worse if the American people + the illegal immigrants who are allowed to vote illegally, put Clinton in office.
If this ain't a mess, it will do til' the mess get's here!!:aargh4::aargh4:
Where are you getting your information from as far as Obama telling them to ignore the law.Actually the ATF has been instructed by the current administration to ignore the law (what a surprise) and retain the aforementioned records.
This tracking will only get worse if the American people + the illegal immigrants who are allowed to vote illegally, put Clinton in office.
If this ain't a mess, it will do til' the mess get's here!!:aargh4::aargh4:
You obviously assumed I meant Obama, which is actually a very logical assumption on your part given his proclivity to ignore the Constitution and other various laws that don't suit his purposes or personal beliefs.Where are you getting your information from as far as Obama telling them to ignore the law.
However, please note that I said the current administration so it could have been anyone from POTUS, to Valerie Jarrett, to the former Attorney General Eric Holder or even the current Attorney General or a plethora of Obama sycophants in between.
The ATF and other governmental law enforcement organizations don't do stuff like that without some direction from those in charge.
What do you mean "just" a .22 rifle. If it was a semi-auto with a detachable magazine then you probably got put into the assault weapon double secret probation list.I'm on that list, then. I've purchased two guns since December, although one was just a Marlin .22 rifle.
The ATF has NOT been the problem imo.The leadership that dictates to them has been. IE; Fast and Furious, Waco/Ruby Ridge, ect. Who determines that leadership , the American people do. There lies the problem. I saw a woman yesterday for example, wearing a T shirt that said " News Flash...I DON'T CARE" . We need informed intelligent voters. As for the ATF , we need the agency. They need leadership thats worth a ....
They have my number. As an FFL, you effectively sell your sole to the BATF. They trust that I will store customer form 4473's for all transactions for 20 years but NICS is not supposed to retain BG check information for more than 90 days. That may be policy but I find it somewhat hard to believe that the records do not exist electronically elsewhere.
If NSA doesn't have these records the Russians or Chinese probably do. :smile:
If NSA doesn't have these records the Russians or Chinese probably do. :smile:
My FFL charges $20 for up to 3 firearms, so I often purchase 2-3 guns at a time online just so I can save on transfer fees. They probably have me on every list they can think of, and my firearms are basically registered.
Actually the ATF has been instructed by the current administration to ignore the law (what a surprise) and retain the aforementioned records.
This tracking will only get worse if the American people + the illegal immigrants who are allowed to vote illegally, put Clinton in office.
If this ain't a mess, it will do til' the mess get's here!!:aargh4::aargh4:
I've had a few ATF agents ADMIT the same thing to me. Although they wouldnt name any names they said it came "straight from the top".
Its not hard to figure is it? With an Administration that is hostile to the people, that does as they please and gets away with it, it should come as no surprise.
If that's the case then how is it when they do a FFL audit that they will go back an entire YEAR and know every single NICS check you did because they all have a "transaction number"?They trust that I will store customer form 4473's for all transactions for 20 years but NICS is not supposed to retain BG check information for more than 90 days.
I actually asked an Examiner that when I got audited.
She said that the 90 day thing is what they are "told to say".
It's all a bunch of BS and the average American is clueless about it.
It is a semi-auto, but it's a tube fed Model 60.What do you mean "just" a .22 rifle. If it was a semi-auto with a detachable magazine then you probably got put into the assault weapon double secret probation list.
it was a GAO audit and report ...... that found out they were doing it, and maintining a person's personal info , etc. The data could be collected for statistical purposes , but no personal information. They definitely violated the Law. The GAO reported the ATF said that the President had said to ignore it and collect the information. Conspiracy to commit a crime if he did ... impeachable offense. O-man also violated the Fedl law on paying ranson money for hostages / prisoners when they did that with Iran as well.
The problem I have is, that no one should violate the law when they know it's against the law, no matter who's telling them to do it. But these employees are submissive morons who cannot stand up and say "no" .
The problem I have is, that no one should violate the law when they know it's against the law, no matter who's telling them to do it. But these employees are submissive morons who cannot stand up and say "no" .
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