[alabamaguy]

Occasionally I like to review the old news clips of self-defense carry situations and this one caught my interest:

"

In this news clip it looks like:
1. man pulls into a parking lot
2. As he is starting to get out, a man come up to the window pointing a gun at the victim
3. The man shots the criminal (and the criminal dies)

So I started to think about how prepared I was for two possible scenarios.
Scenario#1: I've just pulled in the parking spot, and am behind the wheel buckled in, when the criminal knocks on my window and has a gun pointed at me.

Scenario#2: Ditto except I have unbuckled, and popped my door open, and have just started standing up when the criminal approaches with a gun.

The question I asked myself is this: by how I carry in my car, and when leaving the car, how easy or hard would it be for me to conceal my intent and pull my trigger first.

(Granted, the best decision might be compliance. So let's just say in a nano second you've run that one through your head and decided that the guy looks like he is high as a kite and therefor you doubt that compliance will result in your safety.)

My pistol is carried in my doorwell when I am driving, and then I will either stick it in my right pocket when I get out of the car (if winter and have a coat) or in the small of my back. In both cases I use a "sticky" holster. I have a Ruger LC9S with manual safety. I never have kids in my car.

PS: This seems like a reason to carry a double action revolver in the car vice a semi with a manual safety.?????

I need to practice these scenarios, with my biggest issue being the holster combined with the manual safety.

How would you folks handle the situation (again, assuming you've already decided that your life is in immediate danger and that compliance, in this situation, is not a viable option.)

 

[dp1911]

Yeah that's a tough one. Looking at life and death split second decisions here while a gun is pointed at you. Be interested to see exactly how this played out, more specifically how GG got BG to not pull trigger while drawing and firing his own. Did he overpower him? Was there a distraction which allowed GG to draw a fire?

You make a good point by basically asking what is the best place for easiest access while in vehicle.

I raise my shirt over my gun so that the grip is exposed (still in holster about 3:00 pos.) when in vehicle. Faster, easier access to gun is something I'll start paying more attention to. Thanks!

 

[DanBarnes]

Your second scenario would almost always be a "no-brainer" for me as I'm rarely ever alone in my car and would not allow anyone to steal it with my dog inside without attempting to kill the thief. How I'd go about that would depend on exactly how things were playing out, but one method that comes to mind would be to toss the keys in his general direction, and draw/fire when he went to retrieve them.

 

[SouthernBoyVA]

When I am driving one of my vehicles, or even when I am a passenger, my sidearm is ALWAYS carried openly in its holster with the shoulder belt tucked between my body and the gun's grip. I also position the gun in such a manner that it is easily accessible should I need to use it. Both my car and my truck automatically lock the doors once they are in motion so a carjacker is not going to be able to jerk the door open and pull me out. I also an very vehicle-anal, especially with my car. This means that I do not park close to businesses and other vehicles but rather somewhere out in the parking lot where my vehicle is safe from door dings and such. This also gives me excellent sighting of any potential developing situations.

With that said, as soon as I might see a firearm pointed at me, I am going to do my damnedest to try to get my gun out and open fire. I don't have to worry about the assailant announcing his intentions or anything of the sort. Once he points a gun at me, I am free to shoot him... if I am able to do this. And I will definitely look for a way to do this if at all possible. I don't want to lose my vehicles, especially my car because it is irreplaceable, and I certainly don't want to get injured or killed. So with all of that said...

I should add that in my state, I don't even need to see a firearm during a carjackking before I can legally open fire. Carjacking is robbery and robbery is one of the five felonies for which a deadly force response is justifiable.


"Scenario#1: I've just pulled in the parking spot, and am behind the wheel buckled in, when the criminal knocks on my window and has a gun pointed at me."

As I remove my seat belt and start to open my door, I will pull my sidearm out and keep it below the window. The perp is going to have to move backward a little for me to exit my car and may just for a moment drop his guard. But even if he doesn't as soon and my gun clears the door, I will open fire.


"Scenario#2: Ditto except I have unbuckled, and popped my door open, and have just started standing up when the criminal approaches with a gun."

If at all possible, I am going for my gun. If this is not possible, there will be a moment when you hand over your keys and maybe your wallet where you can fumble a bit and drop the keys or some other diversion. If you are able at that point, pull your gun and shoot. Or you could wait and do this while he is entering your vehicle.


"The question I asked myself is this: by how I carry in my car, and when leaving the car, how easy or hard would it be for me to conceal my intent and pull my trigger first.

(Granted, the best decision might be compliance. So let's just say in a nano second you've run that one through your head and decided that the guy looks like he is high as a kite and therefor you doubt that compliance will result in your safety.)

My pistol is carried in my doorwell when I am driving, and then I will either stick it in my right pocket when I get out of the car (if winter and have a coat) or in the small of my back."

You should never carry a gun in a map pocket, glove box, console (I assume by "doorwell" you mean map pocket). The reason for this is if someone steals your car, you not only lost your car but you just gave the perp(s) a loaded firearm. Not a good thing. It is best kept on your person unless the law says otherwise when in your vehicle. And I would strongly advise against pocket carry or the small of your back for its carry as those locations make getting it out and into action more difficult.

 

[Hodad]

Your second scenario would almost always be a "no-brainer" for me as I'm rarely ever alone in my car and would not allow anyone to steal it with my dog inside without attempting to kill the thief. How I'd go about that would depend on exactly how things were playing out, but one method that comes to mind would be to toss the keys in his general direction, and draw/fire when he went to retrieve them.

Let me get this straight, the primary reason you would shoot a potential carjacker is not because your life is threatened, but because they are going to steal your car with your dog inside?

Is that what you are saying?

 

[Mike1956]

Occasionally I like to review the old news clips of self-defense carry situations and this one caught my interest:

"

In this news clip it looks like:
1. man pulls into a parking lot
2. As he is starting to get out, a man come up to the window pointing a gun at the victim
3. The man shots the criminal (and the criminal dies)

So I started to think about how prepared I was for two possible scenarios.
Scenario#1: I've just pulled in the parking spot, and am behind the wheel buckled in, when the criminal knocks on my window and has a gun pointed at me.

Scenario#2: Ditto except I have unbuckled, and popped my door open, and have just started standing up when the criminal approaches with a gun.

The question I asked myself is this: by how I carry in my car, and when leaving the car, how easy or hard would it be for me to conceal my intent and pull my trigger first.

(Granted, the best decision might be compliance. So let's just say in a nano second you've run that one through your head and decided that the guy looks like he is high as a kite and therefor you doubt that compliance will result in your safety.)

My pistol is carried in my doorwell when I am driving, and then I will either stick it in my right pocket when I get out of the car (if winter and have a coat) or in the small of my back. In both cases I use a "sticky" holster. I have a Ruger LC9S with manual safety. I never have kids in my car.

PS: This seems like a reason to carry a double action revolver in the car vice a semi with a manual safety.?????

I need to practice these scenarios, with my biggest issue being the holster combined with the manual safety.

How would you folks handle the situation (again, assuming you've already decided that your life is in immediate danger and that compliance, in this situation, is not a viable option.)

Watching the news isn't going to do much for your strategy and approach. Once you practice the scenario, you will find that the biggest issue has nothing to do with double action revolvers or manual safeties:

Going from on body carry to off body, and then back every time you enter and exit the vehicle is an invitation for mishap.

How are you going to secure the gun, unholster it and then bring it to bear on someone to your left with it placed in the door panel?

SOB is about the worst carry position available, IMO. It is hard to access, cover and verify concealment of the the gun when carried there. By cover, I mean protect the gun from a gun grab during a physical struggle.

 

[PhaedrusIV]

Watching the news isn't going to do much for your strategy and approach. Once you practice the scenario, you will find that the biggest issue has nothing to do with double action revolvers or manual safeties:

Going from on body carry to off body, and then back every time you enter and exit the vehicle is an invitation for mishap.

How are you going to secure the gun, unholster it and then bring it to bear on someone to your left with it placed in the door panel?

SOB is about the worst carry position available, IMO. It is hard to access, cover and verify concealment of the the gun when carried there. By cover, I mean protect the gun from a gun grab during a physical struggle.

^^^^^ These things ^^^^^

Also, if you ever get knocked onto your back (or simply slip and fall onto your back) you may be in for a lifetime tour as a quadriplegic.

Up for that ? No thanks !

 

[BadgerJ]

If you're serious about car carry, then here's a reason why the 5.11 shoulder holster carry is very good. You can carry the sidearm "naked", and you can just slide your hand inside it and have the muzzle facing the BG.

There are contingencies once you get our of the car that you -can- apply for some additional care. I would want to have practiced having the handgun muzzle clear the window - there are ways a clever person can do this without danger to anyone and without having had to blast a hole in your favorite carry garment (they're not cheap!).

Note that any 'movement' is going to be perceived as a threat. However, generally, sliding your right hand up to the 5.11 sleeve could be seen as an attempt to 'give him your wallet' - or give money. If he says 'hands on the wheel Mofo or you are dead, you have to 'talk your way to getting from behind the 8-ball'.

Another important thing is to ALWAYS check your passenger side mirror as the Passenger or before letting your passenger OUT of the car. Someone could be cruising up to the car from the 'blind side'.

It's a difficult scenario and you have to be properly equipped and practiced. It's not something that you can 'advise' people to DO cold, though. It's not without some risk carrying and deploying like that.

HTH

 

[AzQkr]

This one has the chance of becoming quite the discussion on scenario responses.

 

[CR Williams]

It is entirely possible to set up a carry gun for quick access from a seated position in a vehicle with the seat belt still on and from either the appendix or 3:00 position. It is going to be harder for left-handers, though, due to proximity to the door on the driver's side. There are videos running around some place that show this for right handers and I will be putting photo sequences into my next "Gunfighting, and other Thoughts..." book (got the text, have to do the pictures now). It's going to be better if you can release the belt but it doesn't have to stop you or really slow you down.

As for the OP, it might work to feign compliance for a time until you are in a better position to engage with reduced risk.

 

[Mike1956]

It is entirely possible to set up a carry gun for quick access from a seated position in a vehicle with the seat belt still on and from either the appendix or 3:00 position. It is going to be harder for left-handers, though, due to proximity to the door on the driver's side. There are videos running around some place that show this for right handers and I will be putting photo sequences into my next "Gunfighting, and other Thoughts..." book (got the text, have to do the pictures now). It's going to be better if you can release the belt but it doesn't have to stop you or really slow you down.

As for the OP, it might work to feign compliance for a time until you are in a better position to engage with reduced risk.

Three o'clock is where I carry, and the gun can be accessed with the seat belt secured.

Being able to change hands and fire from the draw is, imo a critical skill to learn in order to deal with the cramped spaces. As an example, the assailant has entered the passenger side of the vehicle. A right-handed shooter will have to switch hands to make effective shots.

 

[dangerranger]

In both scenarios the BG already has the drop on me, and I only became aware of them with them already at my window.
I pocket carry so I would not be moving the gun off body to on body, if the truck was already turned off Id give up the keys and put as much distance between me and him as possible. I have an automatic kill switch to prevent others from taking my truck even with the keys. the only wrinkle in this would be if I had the wife or grandkids with me.

Once he figures out the truck wont start I have put at least another car between him and me and I have had time to prepare. DR

 

[DanBarnes]

Let me get this straight, the primary reason you would shoot a potential carjacker is not because your life is threatened, but because they are going to steal your car with your dog inside?

Is that what you are saying?

That's exactly what I'm saying. I may not be able to claim him as a dependent on my income tax, but I would no sooner allow him to be kidnapped without resisting than most folks here would allow their child or significant other to be kidnapped without resisting.

 

[AzQkr]

Three o'clock is where I carry, and the gun can be accessed with the seat belt secured.

Being able to change hands and fire from the draw is, imo a critical skill to learn in order to deal with the cramped spaces. As an example, the assailant has entered the passenger side of the vehicle. A right-handed shooter will have to switch hands to make effective shots.

Hence the reason I like the CAR seated firing solutions. You can move the gun from right to left hand or vice versa to respond nearly immediately to either the drivers side or passenger side as the threat presents.

 

[Spark456]

This is one of many ways.

 

[jmf552]

I pocket carry a snubby and I have another snubby in my center console, which can come out pretty quick. One choice in both scenarios, is just let him take the car. Frustrating as it is, this may be the safest option. It really depends on your read of the BG. I don't think too many car jacking victims who do not resist get hurt, but maybe I'm wrong. But let's say you have the opportunity to take this guy out and you feel that is the best course of action and I can see a lot of good reasons for that.

Scenario #1: I act very cooperative. I reach for the door latch with my left hand and I reach to unbuckle my seat belt with my right, which is what he should expect if I am cooperating. This puts my right hand just next to that center console. I surprise the guy by pushing open the door violently with my shoulder behind it. I don't know how many people here have ever been hit accidentally hit by an opening car door, but it can pack a wallop if it catches you full on. Simultaneously, I get the snubby out of the center console and immediate open fire, even if it has to be through the glass. There might be flaws in this plan, but I have mentally rehearsed it and I think it could work...depending on a lot of detailed factors.

Scenario #2: I cooperate, and give him my keys and say "take it." Then as he gets behind the wheel, I pull out my pocket snubby and I car jack him right back, although I am ready for any counter he might make. Now, some might say I couldn't shoot him over taking my property, but my retort would be he still had a gun and therefore he was still an active threat to me. Any move of his arm in my car could be taken as him bringing that gun up to eliminate the witness.

 

[AzQkr]

They can have the vehicle but only until I get my own handgun operational. I'm not predisposed to be armed and allowing people to take my "stuff" in an armed robbery.

 

[9MMare]

Totally depends on the compete circumstances but as a 56 yr old woman, I can try some things that a man may not. One possibility, if purse carrying, take my purse from the seat next to me, acting like I'm panicking, and pretending to fumble with it, offering it to them screaming, here take it, take it!(still with door locked and windows up of course. Door always locked)

Then draw and fire or even fire from within purse (yes I've practiced this dry firing). Altho I am big on retreating whenever possible if they have me trapped in the car at gunpoint, there's a strong chance they would a) take me with them as a hostage or b) shoot me anyway.

 

[Mike1956]

They can have the vehicle but only until I get my own handgun operational. I'm not predisposed to be armed and allowing people to take my "stuff" in an armed robbery.

I have to agree. Bad guys don't think like us. They don't adhere to the same value systems, ethics, morals or priorities that we do. They can, and often do decide to terminate the interaction with their victims through lethal means, regardless of compliance or lack thereof by those victims. Better, in my estimation to terminate that interaction ourselves if at all possible, whenever that possibility presents itself.

 

[Imnobody]

That's exactly what I'm saying. I may not be able to claim him as a dependent on my income tax, but I would no sooner allow him to be kidnapped without resisting than most folks here would allow their child or significant other to be kidnapped without resisting.

You best review the laws in SC concerning the use of deadly force because if it plays out as you wrote, you would be charged with a crime (perhaps even up to murder). You can't shoot someone just because they are committing a crime, and regardless of your feelings towards your dog the court isn't going to allow you to use deadly force because your dog was in danger. Heck, there is a thread on the forum today about a store clerk that is being charged because he shot and killed a masked person that was stealing from the store he was working at.

Of course there are plenty of scenarios where using deadly force would be justified, but if you go into a scenario with a predetermined response, you could find yourself in deep legal trouble.