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I was recently watching a T.V. show(documentary on Gangs) and the BG in the show wore body armour. I was also on another site and was told my service USAF is training to shoot 2 com and 1 head due to the increase in body armour overseas and home. Guys and Gals this should really spark us to start thinking about training this way if you are not. Just my 2cents...
 

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Worth some serious consideration. LEO's have caught some in my area wearing or carrying them.
 

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my drill for years has been 2 to chest , if still standing drop aim to pelvic girdle and apply , then once they are down the head is more stationairy if needed , just my thoughts YMMV
 

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I think that the armoured badguys are highly overated and in a serious minority. The thing is, if one BG gets in a shootout and is wearing one, we'll all hear about it for weeks on every news outlet there is, making the problem seem much worse than it is...

On the other hand...gangbangers wearing armour should be engaged with rifles...not handguns. Unless they are wearing raid gear the body armour wont matter...
 

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i agree with hot that it's an over rated concern , but at the same time if the bg dont go down , its time to change up not keep repeating what you were doing that didnt work , make your choice , but shift poa and shoot again after a couple or so
 

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Yep...guys I at first thought that it was all hype also until I read how the military even had concerns surrounding it. However, every little bit of information is good. :wave:
 

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Some hype maybe but - let's not forget the really dedicated badguys - remember the N Hollywood shootout? Top grade body armor and AK's - they took a lot of stopping, like 45 minute battle!

The odds are fortunately IMO in our favor - so unlikely we'd encounter this but - it'd be folly to assume it'll never happen. Just something to bear in mind when we train.
 

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In the recent course I and another instructor put on in Pa., we taught the students to put 3-4 quick hits to COM and 1 to the head from the hip in one drill. This was performed from 6 feet.

You can give 2-3 quick shots and immediately go to the head from the hip without any effort at all. The students were all doing this on their first magazine, it's that easy once you have learned how.

It's called "the hammer":danceban:

Just another tool in the tool box, a tool thats owned to solve issues as they may arise like any tool.

Brownie
 

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Didn't a BG just have some Flak vests too. Mark Wilson took on rifle armed armored BG.

Natually, the BG won.:mad:
 

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I was taught to zipper. Start at or just below belt and each consecutive shot walks up to the head.
 

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Rugerman:

Is the way you do it starting from the hip and moving to full extension going up the body?, or from compressed ready?

We taught the students "The Zipper" as well last weekend. Starting at the hip and extending the arms out while firing up the body.

The Hammer is a different technique and stays at the hip, and faster to the head if that is where you are going anyway for whatever reason.

Brownie
 

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Get an IDPA target. Replace the head with a balloon and let it swing from a tree.

Mark off the area a vest would cover. If more than two hit the vest consider yourself dead.

Out of respect for the LEOs and other good guys who wear the stuff, I will not go into the specifics of beating the stuff with a handgun. Suffice to say it doesn't usually take any special training; just modify what you know a bit, and there's nothing AP involved.

Josh <><
 

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Regardless of body armor - failure to stop drills seem to be a good idea. I think the more likely situation would be that you just took out both lungs and heart of Bubba the Methed Out Psycho Killer and in the 8 seconds it's going to take him to loose conciousness, he'll have a knife in your gut.
 

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As an OC [ordinary citizen] I worry more about an attack by a vampire than by a vested criminal.

Hitting the magic triangle is far more difficult than most realize. A hit in the rest of the head may not have the desired effect.

If I were involved in a failure drill, the below the belt area would be my target.
 

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KC135 said:
As an OC [ordinary citizen] I worry more about an attack by a vampire than by a vested criminal.

Hitting the magic triangle is far more difficult than most realize. A hit in the rest of the head may not have the desired effect.

If I were involved in a failure drill, the below the belt area would be my target.
I seem to recall that Ayoob applied that philosophy years ago, don't know if he still does. Nobody likes getting shot in the nethers. And if you break the pelvic bone they are pretty much out of commission...
 

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"The Zipper"

I was taught "The Zipper" as well in a class down here in Texas.

We started at the hip close in, and then worked to a full extension of the arms, and then back down to your hips.

Seems to me that not many bg's are going to be standing after that.
 

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I think the idea of a vest is not that far fetched. The bangers are well armed, well funded, and it would not be too surprising if they took to using some type of vest. That said, being confronted by a banger is not much of a possibility for most of us, unless you are a LEO. I personally think I'm more likely to be confronted by a meth head looking for funds for his next buy. If he's under the influence, it would be necessary to shoot like he had a vest because these guys are so hard to stop. I practice two COM and one to the head. If confronted, I'd probably go two or three COM just below the sternum and then go for the head.
 

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No vest worry here. IMO it's like this.
For a BG to wear a vest,especially in the warmer climates,would be a sure "tell" to Any LEO and they are smart enough(just barely) to figure this out. Also I feel that the career BG's would rather spend their money on weapons and they probably feel that wearing a vest isn't a good,"I'm a tough guy" show, for their homies.

The chances of a CCW'er coming up against a vest wearer is 'bout the same as us encountering a BG(s) that are in need of your second and especially your third magazine. This, especially for you full sized Glockers.

I feel that we CCW'ers have mo betta things to worry about than them vests. Things like training. Things like the latest/best firearms,ammo,holsters,belts,blades,and lights,that will increase our surviveability in a lethal encounter. This is what I spend my time acessing.

But this is just me. I don't carry more than one reload(mag of 7),only one blade,and(gasp!) no light either.

Am I prepared?? I think so. You may not. Good luck to us all. ------
 
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