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Discussion Starter #1
I am posting this as a feeble attempt to help prevent forum stagnation. :bouncy:
"Mythbusters" hung up a dead pig & fired at it with "many & multiple" rounds of all sorts of handgun ammo & up to & including a machine gun in an attempt to huff & puff & "Blow The Poor Piggy Away."
Well, (needless ta say) no ammo even made the pig move ~ so nothing ever gets "Blown Away" when you shoot at it with any hangun.
Just for your information.
 

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This sounds like a govenment study.
How much ammo and money did it cost them to determine what shooters have known all along?
Hollywood is fiction, in the real world people get shot with handguns multiple times and live to tell the tale. I believe the statistics say that something like 70% of handgun wounds are survivable. (usually a result of poor marksmanship, but what the hey).
 

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What about a shotgun blast a la 00-Buck???
 

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According to stats 12 gauge 00Buck is 100% fatal, then again so is .308, that is why Clint Smith says that the handgun is only useful for fighting your way to the shotgun or rifle you should have had in the first place.
 

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I've seen the "70%" survival numbers too...also that they are more survivable than knife wounds. I have to wonder about the "dead pig" testing though. Pigs aren't exactly comparible to a human body. Wild pig hunting is fairly common where I live, and most hunters seem to use med-large cal rifles with .357 or .44 mag handguns as backups. Head shots on pigs are iffy with a handgun, but as you know, same shot on a human is more than 90% effective....my two coppers!
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Seems Like

A waste of a perfectly good pig to me. We could have had a "cook out" :biggrin:
I honestly did my own testing years ago and during my "mucho younger years" on some spoiled beef side & porcine ribs (porcine = City Talk For "Pig") ~ (no machine gun & no complete hanging pig)
Anyway...I got about the same results as the Mythbusters.
I posted this because some shooter on another forum saw the Mythbusters "Blown Away" Test & was really worried about the "power" of his particular handgun.
I think he honestly thought that one "solid hit" from his legendary .45 would send that pig sailing back through the air about 10 feet. :eek:

I am not "knocking" the .45 ~ I carry one but, real life "ain't" a Clint Eastwood movie.
 

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You mean a hit from a .45 won't knock a man off his feet? So much for that old myth. Handguns aren't death rays, but they're what we have. Don't know about you people but I don't carry a rifle or a shotgun. Very hard to conceal and if I just slung it over my shoulder, I think I'd get a lot of unwanted attention, especially from the police.
 

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It's not the "knockdown" factor that makes a handgun work. It's the fact that you are launching a projectile which literally bores a deep hole in the tender insides of the body where such a channel is not supposed to be.

The goal is to shock the central nervous system. Of course, this is exactly what makes chemically fueled attackers so very dangerous. Their nervous systems tend to be indifferent to the pain.

This is why I feel there are no magic calibers, just overall less effective calibers and overall more effective calibers. And with modern loads available, all calibers are now more effective than ever.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
"Well Said!" Euclidean
"This is why I feel there are no magic calibers, just overall less effective calibers and overall more effective calibers. And with modern loads available, all calibers are now more effective than ever."
 

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According to stats 12 gauge 00Buck is 100% fatal, then again so is .308, that is why Clint Smith says that the handgun is only useful for fighting your way to the shotgun or rifle you should have had in the first place.
A few corrections are in order. I don't know where you are getting your stats, but they are way off base. There are numerous cases of people surviving shootings with 00Buck or .308. In fact, there are cases of people being shot with .50 BMG rounds and surviving, shot with 12 gauge slugs and surviving, etc. And according to my notes, Clint's comment (paraphrasing) is not that the handgun is only useful to get to your long gun, but that the handgun serves you when you cannot get to the long gun.
 

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All this one-shot stops stuff is about as exciting as eating grits plain. Bottom line is that unless you hit the CNS or do enough tissue damage to create enough blood loss, things just don't stop, esp. if they are chemically fueled/angry, etc. Not knocking anyone or their comments, but I just see that we spend way too much time looking for the magic bullet, which doesn't exist. Yes I believe that the .308 and the 12 ga. with 00 buck is better at stopping someone than my .45, but I ain't gonna stop defending myself and say "HEY! Your supposed to stop that. I read where this here load is supposed to 100% effective and you ain't supposed to do that."
 

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David Armstrong said:
A few corrections are in order. I don't know where you are getting your stats, but they are way off base. There are numerous cases of people surviving shootings with 00Buck or .308. In fact, there are cases of people being shot with .50 BMG rounds and surviving, shot with 12 gauge slugs and surviving, etc. And according to my notes, Clint's comment (paraphrasing) is not that the handgun is only useful to get to your long gun, but that the handgun serves you when you cannot get to the long gun.
Exactilioso, as Barney Fife used to say. Good post.
 

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A true one shot stop caliber...16"50cal.
I will trust my dinky little 9mm, as it puts the little hi speed pills right where I want them, every time.
 

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How 'bout this--- if my .45ACP load is 91% effective as a one shot stopper---then what percentage is 2 or 3 of these. Hey, I'll kill the bad guy 182 or 273% if I hafta.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The Old Magic "9" Vs Big Bruiser .45

The debate "Eternal"
9mm!!! :argue: .45!!! 9mm!!! :argue: .45!!!
Handgun ammo sure has made some great strides in overall performance & effectiveness.
These days I would not feel naked with a high quality 9mm & a whole passle of those quick, little stinging 9mm bees or a few less of those big fat .45s
Shot Placement Is Everything.
More folks are killed every year with .22 Long Rifle than any other caliber but, I would not carry one for serious self~defense.
 

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The debate "Eternal"
9mm!!! .45!!! 9mm!!! .45!!!


Thus the birth of the 10mm...big bullet movin' fast
 

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Many years ago, I shot a guy three time in the chest with tracer rounds from a M-16. I saw the round enter and exit his chest. This did not slow the guy down and he remained standing standing until a M-60 got his attention shortly there after. From that point on I would never again carry a M-16 as primary weapon. I agree with Shooter, I don't think there is any magic calibers.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Trader

"Many years ago, I shot a guy three time in the chest with tracer rounds from a M-16."
3 TRACER rounds completely through the chest ~ I don't even think the movie "special effects" guys have that one quite worked out yet!
THAT honestly had to be a real "eye opener" to actually SEE that happening & still have the BG keep on a'coming! :eek:
:unitedsta Good Post Trader!
A Perfect Example!
 

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I had a guy that was in my Guard unit that had, in Vietnam, fired upon a man on a bicycle with a single round from a .50 MG. He said he hit the guy square in the chest and blew a hole big enough to see all the way through him. The guy continued to pedal a few more seconds before finally falling over still holding the handle bars. While I have never experienced seeing someone actually get shot firsthand, I don't believe what actually happens once you fire is ever what you were expecting.
 

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Usually the three shot deal ends it all... two in the Center mass area, and if that doeens't work out...the third one to the head usualy turns off all the lights! If he's still coming with one to the head, then I think I'm in trouble :biggrin:
 
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