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Okay, now what? Colorado already has all the intrusive laws that Biden and company want to force on the rest of us. Did they work? No.

This is very similar to the Fort Hood mass shooting from the Obama era. In that dreadful case, the shooter was a not so subtle and not so closeted Islamic terrorist. His radicalization (I prefer to say fundamentalism) was obvious to all who knew him, but nobodyset an investigation into motion BECAUSE nobody wanted to be accused of being racist or an Islamaphobe. CAIR and Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood have certainly gotten a lock on the liberal culture in this country and it’s costing lives. No doubt it will continue. Gutless and feckless politicians and worse media will not grow spines or take action.

There is another angle that must be examined. Where were the DEFENDERS? Where were those lawfully armed civilians? For that matter, where were the plainclothes police? Well, they literally can’t be everywhere because currently we’re not in a police state. The civilian good guys will always outnumber the police, at least in a free country. There is a very sad meme that is becoming sadly more frequent and true in the face of the blind stupidity of the liberals which can be expected but is useful to the incomparable evil of the globalists.
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There is another angle that must be examined. Where were the DEFENDERS? Where were those lawfully armed civilians? For that matter, where were the plainclothes police? Well, they literally can’t be everywhere because currently we’re not in a police state. The civilian good guys will always outnumber the police, at least in a free country.
While I agree with the premise of an armed citizenry sheepdog protecting the sheep, I wonder how many carriers would actually go toe to toe with a guy wielding and AR-15 pistol. Is our first duty to protect others or to protect ourselves and our loved ones? The best means of protection might be escape and evasion. I know I'd think twice about using my 3.1" barrel P365 against a 9.5" barrel Ruger AR556 pistol if I could avoid it.
 
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Liberals will say, "see...nothing can stop gun violence except a complete ban like they have in England."
Well, that has worked pretty well, not perfectly. On the other hand, violence and violent crime has increased. They're using knives and cars. People who have evil in their heart will find a way. In the mean time, the innocent are disarmed.
 

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Well, that has worked pretty well, not perfectly. On the other hand, violence and violent crime has increased. They're using knives and cars. People who have evil in their heart will find a way. In the mean time, the innocent are disarmed.
Yeah, but they aren't using the evil gun so the rest doesn't matter.
 

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Seems like path being built for mental exams to be added to the background checks.
 
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While I agree with the premise of an armed citizenry sheepdog protecting the sheep, I wonder how many carriers would actually go toe to toe with a guy wielding and AR-15 pistol. Is our first duty to protect others or to protect ourselves and our loved ones? The best means of protection might be escape and evasion. I know I'd think twice about using my 3.1" barrel P365 against a 9.5" barrel Ruger AR556 pistol if I could avoid it.
What if you were standing 5' behind him and he didn't notice that you were there? Most grocery stores that I have been in have all sorts of cover and concealment. It's not like you have to stand there out in the open in a dueling stance trading fire.
Just saying.
 

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While I agree with the premise of an armed citizenry sheepdog protecting the sheep, I wonder how many carriers would actually go toe to toe with a guy wielding and AR-15 pistol. Is our first duty to protect others or to protect ourselves and our loved ones? The best means of protection might be escape and evasion. I know I'd think twice about using my 3.1" barrel P365 against a 9.5" barrel Ruger AR556 pistol if I could avoid it.
Maybe they wouldn’t if they had an option. But I’m pretty sure that anyone facing imminent death would probably fight back if they had the force option to exercise.
 

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Most of those shooters are not expecting plain Joe Doe to shoot back.
 

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I'll be curious to find out how he managed to take down the police officer responding to an active shooter and who caused his leg to leak.
 

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Something I had to deal with many times.

IF you decide you are not going to intervene and protect innocent lives - or at least try to stop the carnage, you had better be very, very, very sure you can live with the consequences.

I never met anyone who made the decision to not do anything they could to help who escaped a fate that we described as, "worse than death." And it truly is that. Some folks stopped the anguish by suicide. The notes they left behind were heartbreaking at best. Others destroyed their loved ones as surely as a man with a gun would have.
 

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What if you were standing 5' behind him and he didn't notice that you were there? Most grocery stores that I have been in have all sorts of cover and concealment. It's not like you have to stand there out in the open in a dueling stance trading fire.
Just saying.
This. Tactics over tools.(y)
 

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Most of those shooters are not expecting plain Joe Doe to shoot back.
This. It wouldn't take too many instances of these nut jobs getting put down hard before the copycat idea loses attraction.
 

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Liberals will say, "see...nothing can stop gun violence except a complete ban like they have in England."
This is worth repeating, since he did pass a background check. More fodder for the gun ban crowd.
 

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This is worth repeating, since he did pass a background check. More fodder for the gun ban crowd.
Yes, people have to understand how Liberals think...it's nothing like the people here think. Liberals run on pure emotion, not logic and facts. No amount of explaining the facts to them will make a difference.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
While I agree with the premise of an armed citizenry sheepdog protecting the sheep, I wonder how many carriers would actually go toe to toe with a guy wielding and AR-15 pistol. Is our first duty to protect others or to protect ourselves and our loved ones? The best means of protection might be escape and evasion. I know I'd think twice about using my 3.1" barrel P365 against a 9.5" barrel Ruger AR556 pistol if I could avoid it.
The weaponry is irrelevant. An AR15 pistol is for most a “spray and pray” instrument at best. Tactics is EVERYTHING.

E&E? You’re presenting your BACK to a shooter when you are armed and the innocents are dying around you? Your call, but for me, I’d never be able to live with myself later. I submit that if you’re within 50 feet, armed as you posit, that you’re well capable of either ending the threat outright or catching enough of a piece of the attacker to end it altogether shortly.

While I myself frequently carry my own P365 while running errands around town (and ALWAYS with a 15rd spare magazine at the minimum), I’m almost as likely to be carrying a 10mm 1911 Government model. Would that give you more confidence to engage? If so, the problem isn’t the available firepower. It’s you.
 

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All of this points out the idiocracy of gun control and how it DOES NOT WORK.

Law abiding people buy firearms and jump through all the hoops and get their firearm. Criminals have their own market to buy firearms that does not require any hoops.

If someone has never committed a crime, background checks would do nothing.

I think we should go back to the way our founding fathers created the system.

If you are free to walk the streets, you have all your rights intact. There would be no gun control whatsoever.

If you commit a crime, you get a lawyer, a trial by jury, and if you are convicted, you get incarcerated.

At that point you lose your rights until you get out of jail/prison.

If you are too dangerous to have your rights intact, then you do not get released.

It really was that simple.

But, for some reason people started thinking that laws prevent criminal activity and that is just plain wrong.

Laws do not prevent crime. Laws merely allow a means to punish people that break them.
 

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Liberals will say, "see...nothing can stop gun violence except a complete ban like they have in England."
They'll have to eliminate the 2A in order to ban all guns. But it won't stop people from being violent. As for the UK, it's my understanding that they don't have a right to self defense by any means even though it's common sense to defend oneself from an attack. It's laughable that they want to ban knives, even steak knives.
 
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