[Martin]

Hello board! I am in Arizona. The instructor at the CCW permit class said this:

While carrying concealed, if your weapon becomes visible to anyone it is concidered brandishing. They also said that it could be considered equal to unholstering while carrying open. An example they used was "in a super market you lean forward and your jacket opens to reveal the firearm" and " you have it tucked into your belt on your back and someone can see the outline of it through the shirt".

Could some of you experts define brandishing for me? Maybe even for both CC and OC.

Thanks.

 

[Zsnake]

Well, I really can't speak for your State, but that sounds like the biggest load of CRAP I have ever heard!
I'll be really interested in others views.
God help us if it's true!

 

[Mic]

Not brandishing if it becomes exposed. Many "instructors" tell this story to make you aware (scare you) in the hope you study the laws of your state and use good judgment.

Brandishing definition;
1. To wave or flourish (a weapon, for example) menacingly.
2. To display ostentatiously.

dont think any of this applies unless your unfortunate to live in a "must conceal" state and the local PD and DA want to make a point.

AZ is a OC (at least it was when I grew up there) state so if it became exposed it's OC, simple.

 

[ranger56528]

My brother lives in Glendale,Az....I'll ask him..

 

[ranger56528]

Dont matter here if your gun takes a peek-a-boo once in awhile,were OC and CC if ya have a permit....

 

[porsche4786]

Hello board! I am in Arizona. The instructor at the CCW permit class said this:

While carrying concealed, if your weapon becomes visible to anyone it is concidered brandishing. They also said that it could be considered equal to unholstering while carrying open. An example they used was "in a super market you lean forward and your jacket opens to reveal the firearm" and " you have it tucked into your belt on your back and someone can see the outline of it through the shirt".

Could some of you experts define brandishing for me? Maybe even for both CC and OC.

Thanks.

That would be a ridicules! In my state, Oregon, most places you can open carry (without a CHL), and with a CHL you can open carry statewide, or conceal carry obviously. But if you are conceal carrying, and it shows. It would just fall under the open carry law. Which if you have a license, wouldn't matter. It's very easy for the outline of your gun to show. I'm sure somebody could tell I was carrying if they watched me all day. It's impossible for somebody to carry without some sort of printing. Well, unless you carry a very small deep concealed gun. But with a IWB holster, I think everybody slips sometimes. But not to where anybody really notices...

 

[PastorPack]

OK all you Arizona DCer's time to chime in on this one.

 

[Munch]

In MI

I am certainly not an expert, but from what I have been taught concealed means just that, concealed. If someone can see it then it ceases to be concealed. The person that sees the weapon has the right to complain and a store manager may call the police. How would anyone know that you have a license to carry? Then I would suspect that your intentions will be considered. If you reach for your wallet or something on a high shelf those movements are not threatening. Brandishing means to "display in a threatening manner." While it would probably be a defensible charge under the circumstances that you describe, it is not unimaginable that the situation could lead to criminal charges given some areas distaste for gun ownership etc. Carrying concealed also would include taking appropriate measures to insure that the weapon doesn't print either like, through thin material.

 

[unloved]

Many "instructors" tell this story to make you aware (scare you) in the hope you study the laws of your state and use good judgment.

That's strange. I'm fortunate enough not to live in a state that forces people to take some state approved, so-called "training" class in order to qualify for a carry license. IMO, such classes serve absolutely no legitimate purpose. I've been told many times here, and on other forums, that those classes are a good thing because they teach people about the law regarding carry, and use of firearms. Seems to me that the instructors of these ridiculous classes would fulfill their claimed function much more effectively by actually teaching their students about the law, rather than often disseminating incorrect information, as some kind of highly questionable teaching technique.

 

[jahwarrior72]

bottom line is, the instructor was full of crap.

of course they'd say things to discourage open carry. they get paid to give CCW classes. if people started to OC more, and just decided not to conceal anymore, they might stop applying for CC permits altogether. and then where would the poor CCW instructor be? out of a job, i think.

thus concludes the lesson.

 

[aric]

That's strange. I'm fortunate enough not to live in a state that forces people to take some state approved, so-called "training" class in order to qualify for a carry license. IMO, such classes serve absolutely no legitimate purpose. I've been told many times here, and on other forums, that those classes are a good thing because they teach people about the law regarding carry, and use of firearms. Seems to me that the instructors of these ridiculous classes would fulfill their claimed function much more effectively by actually teaching their students about the law, rather than often disseminating incorrect information, as some kind of highly questionable teaching technique.

Not to say getting training of any kind is a bad idea. But I'm right with you about having to get training in order to obtain a permit.

What that instructor calls brandishing, isn't called brandishing here.

 

[zacii]

It's simply not true. Arizona is an OC state. To brandish you must remove your pistol from it's holster and threaten someone with it.

 

[19 Kilo]

Nope.

I'm a little hazy on whether this is a rumor or a holdover from a revised statute, but I heard the same thing from other CCW holders before I took my class and got my permit.

My instructor was very clear, when the question came up, to say that this is not brandishing.

Now, as a side note, if you are at Wally World, and you reach up for the last can of corn and someone sees your weapon and alerts a manager, the manager has the right to ask you to leave, even if they don't have one of the no guns signs in the door. He/She/It is acting as the voice of the company and should (to some degree) be respected in that capacity. An LEO would likely side with them to keep the peace.

 

[unloved]

Not to say getting training of any kind is a bad idea. But I'm right with you about having to get training in order to obtain a permit.

Oh, I'm all for quality training. I've yet to see any indication that any of the state mandated classes constitute quality training.

 

[gilliland87]

From an Arizona Member

Your instructor was full of B.S. You will not get a brandishing charge for printing while concealed. In the state of Arizona you can move from concealed carry to open carry(uncovering your gun whenever you wish). As others have stated in some instances you may be asked to leave, or you may get a Man with a gun call to the local police. I personally Open carry the majority of the time with no hassles. I have had one Man with a gun call encounter with the local police which went smoothly. So carry your weapon with confidence and don't look like the scared person in the equation.

 

[jahwarrior72]

I'm a little hazy on whether this is a rumor or a holdover from a revised statute, but I heard the same thing from other CCW holders before I took my class and got my permit.

My instructor was very clear, when the question came up, to say that this is not brandishing.

Now, as a side note, if you are at Wally World, and you reach up for the last can of corn and someone sees your weapon and alerts a manager, the manager has the right to ask you to leave, even if they don't have one of the no guns signs in the door. He/She/It is acting as the voice of the company and should (to some degree) be respected in that capacity. An LEO would likely side with them to keep the peace.

the only problem with that is, Walmart's policy is to go along with state law; they approve of OC in OC states, and any manager asking you to leave is violating corporate policy.

 

[19 Kilo]

the only problem with that is, Walmart's policy is to go along with state law; they approve of OC in OC states, and any manager asking you to leave is violating corporate policy.

But, this isn't a question of OC, it's a question of a CCW holder, reaching up for something, exposing the butt of the weapon, and potentially having an older customer from a less gun friendly state (snowbird) or someone just ignorant running over to a manager and telling him that "That man has a gun".

While what you say is true, it depends on several assumptions:

1.) The customer complaining isn't panicked, irrational, vocal, etc.
2.) The mid-level register biscuit who approaches you understands all facets of both corporate policy and state law.
3.) If he brings LEOs along:
a.) They know corporate policy
b.) They are up for defending your right to carry a gun in the corn section of the store
c.) They aren't tired at the end (or start) of a shift and won't just ask you to take it on the arches to shut all the civilians up.

In the end, however, I think my point was more that the course covered the fact that in AZ, even if the store does NOT have the "No Guns" sign posted (which, BTW, is now a Desert Eagle with a circle-slash), they have the right to ask you to leave.

 

[cz75luver]

I was told when I took my CCW course that printing would be considering brandishing if a person calls/involves LE. It would be assumed the person felt threatened and that's, supposedly, all it would take. Further told concealed meant exactly that - out of sight. I'd rather not chance it so I conceal well.

 

[F40]

Where did you take your class? Arizona doesn't even have a brandishing charge, its considered disturbing the peace.

 

[jahwarrior72]

I was told when I took my CCW course that printing would be considering brandishing if a person calls/involves LE. It would be assumed the person felt threatened and that's, supposedly, all it would take. Further told concealed meant exactly that - out of sight. I'd rather not chance it so I conceal well.

your profile sys your from FL, which, if true, means that you must carry concealed; FL has no provision for open carry. AZ, if a gun that was concealed becomes visible, it merely goes from being concealed carry to open carry, not brandishing.

i still can't believe a CCW instructor in AZ would give out such bad information.