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Police are getting testy and fed up with demonstrators. Down goes the old guy. (scroll down a little in the link to see the video)

What do you think about it?

From the article:

BUFFALO, N.Y. (WKBW) — The entire force of the Buffalo Police Emergency Response Team has resigned as of Friday afternoon, in support of the two officers who were suspended without pay following an incident in Niagara Square on Thursday evening.

Just after curfew, 75-year-old Martin Gugino was shoved by officers, causing him to fall to the ground. Gugino is in serious condition at ECMC.

https://concealednation.org/2020/06/entire-buffalo-police-squad-resigns-because-of-the-treatment-of-two-of-their-members-after-yesterdays-incident/?fbclid=IwAR3UlFNfnQdkg91MaHKKfBN9CEJutYtydL1LFbbTGAvdps7m4oiKmZXDXRE
 

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What did the old guy expect to happen? Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. As far as the entire police force resigning - that might get someone's attention. It's time we started treating our officers each on their own merit, or lack of merit. If they are bad, throw the book at them. If they are good officers, back them up.
 

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They resigned from the unit, but not from the department...according to the NY Post. Not much of a protest from the officers. Will be interesting to see how many try to find jobs in suburban departments.
 

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What did the old guy expect to happen? Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. As far as the entire police force resigning - that might get someone's attention. It's time we started treating our officers each on their own merit, or lack of merit. If they are bad, throw the book at them. If they are good officers, back them up.
What stupid game, standing?
And then the police stopped allowing people to assist him.

You support that?

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The video doesn’t seem like such action seemed warranted by the police. The officer who pushed him got a running start. The mass resignation is going to send the message that police will cover for each other even when there might be some wrongdoing.
Compare how the two protestors were handled. Neither seemed to be offering any physical resistance.
The police appeared to handle the second person appropriately, merely escorting him to the rear of the line.

That said, I wasn’t there so my observation might be flawed.
 

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My thoughts:
  • If you see a bunch of riot cops coming toward you, you should not go into them, you should go the other way. I don't know why this even needs to be said. It is a "Duh!"
  • He wasn't shoved that hard. He looked like he was in decent shape, but I guess not. It also looked like he had a motorcycle helmet early in the video. If you ride a bike, you need some balance! I am almost 68 and I have some balance issues, but if you shoved me like that, I would not go down. It didn't even look like he fell that hard. I am incredulous that he is in "serious condition." If you have no balance and you can't handle a moderate shove, you probably shouldn't be riding a bike or confronting police. Another "Duh!"
  • What the heck was he doing there? I could not hear the audio, but with both the protesters and the cops, his body language made it look like he was an old guy trying to be one of the "cool kids." If you are lucky enough to get to be 70, hopefully you have developed the wisdom to not do stuff like that. Stay home. Have a bourbon.
Bottom line: He played a stupid game, he won a stupid prize. Having said that, I think the officer who shoved him could have handled it better, but it was not egregious IMHO.
 

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He deliberately blocked one officer's way while reaching two, maybe three times toward a second officer's sidearm. Truly unfortunate outcome, but he did play a game...
 

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I think that a few bad apples have ruined the bunch in the minds of many Americans. But I also think that we are seeing lots of examples of police officers not using their heads. If I’m out protesting (40 years old, 6’3” and 250 lbs) and getting a bit too aggressive, they need to treat me differently from a 75 year old man.

Put it this way, if an old lady hits me with her purse, I’m walking away. If a teenager hits me with his backpack, I’m cleaning his clock. Situational awareness and disparity of force seems to be lacking in a lot of the incidents.

Until the police start realizing they’re under the microscope and being recorded constantly, and modify their behavior based on the situation, then we will never get away from these situations and we will be talking about this same issue for a long time.

I also think we are seeing the product of lack of resources. Around here, a rookie cop starts at about 45-50k. You aren’t going to consistently attract great candidates for a job that requires you to put your life on the line for that kind of money.
 

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He deliberately blocked one officer's way while reaching two, maybe three times toward a second officer's sidearm. Truly unfortunate outcome, but he did play a game...
I won't split hairs, but it did not look to me like the guy was seriously trying to get the cop's gun. But the video was not that clear. If he was, he certainly deserved to be decked, cuffed and booked for a felony.
 

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I have a friend who works for Buffalo PD. All I’m going to say is I wouldn’t want to be on his bad side right now.
 

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I think that a few bad apples have ruined the bunch in the minds of many Americans. But I also think that we are seeing lots of examples of police officers not using their heads. If I’m out protesting (40 years old, 6’3” and 250 lbs) and getting a bit too aggressive, they need to treat me differently from a 75 year old man.

Put it this way, if an old lady hits me with her purse, I’m walking away. If a teenager hits me with his backpack, I’m cleaning his clock. Situational awareness and disparity of force seems to be lacking in a lot of the incidents.

Until the police start realizing they’re under the microscope and being recorded constantly, and modify their behavior based on the situation, then we will never get away from these situations and we will be talking about this same issue for a long time.

I also think we are seeing the product of lack of resources. Around here, a rookie cop starts at about 45-50k. You aren’t going to consistently attract great candidates for a job that requires you to put your life on the line for that kind of money.
Having studied the martial arts for years, I can tell you I have seen guys his age and his general body frame that can take you out before you knew what hit you. I was always taught never assume what an opponent knows or what he can do unless you've see him fight. A lot of people have gone down making those kind of assumptions.

I thought he looked like he was in pretty decent shape, kind of wiry. He was not some old lady with a purse.
 

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I won't split hairs, but it did not look to me like the guy was seriously trying to get the cop's gun. But the video was not that clear. If he was, he certainly deserved to be decked, cuffed and booked for a felony.
What it looks like from two feet away in a crowd-control environment is much more relevant that what it looks like to us. He was somewhere he should not have been, doing whatever the heck it was he was doing.
 

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What it looks like from two feet away in a crowd-control environment is much more relevant that what it looks like to us. He was somewhere he should not have been, doing whatever the heck it was he was doing.
We agree on that. Cops in a riot line are coming at you for one reason only: To get you to move back. So unless you are ready to take them all down, you move back. I am sure his family is going, "Gramps did what???"
 

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The way we were taught is that if you need to put your hands on someone, then you need to arrest them.

It didn’t look to me like he was arrested, and I would say this will be an issue for them in civil court. JMO.
 

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Having studied the martial arts for years, I can tell you I have seen guys his age and his general body frame that can take you out before you knew what hit you. I was always taught never assume what an opponent knows or what he can do unless you've see him fight. A lot of people have gone down making those kind of assumptions.

I thought he looked like he was in pretty decent shape, kind of wiry. He was not some old lady with a purse.
Ok. So the argument is he could be Mr Miyagi about to “wax on, wax off” a squad of cops. Got it.

What about the part where they walked past him bleeding from his head, with only one cop appearing to get on his radio but rendering no aid?

Back to my original point. I see several instances of poor decision making by the police. And even if it’s “borderline poor”, right now there is little room for gray area given the temperature in this country.
 

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I think that a few bad apples have ruined the bunch in the minds of many Americans. But I also think that we are seeing lots of examples of police officers not using their heads. If I’m out protesting (40 years old, 6’3” and 250 lbs) and getting a bit too aggressive, they need to treat me differently from a 75 year old man.

Put it this way, if an old lady hits me with her purse, I’m walking away. If a teenager hits me with his backpack, I’m cleaning his clock. Situational awareness and disparity of force seems to be lacking in a lot of the incidents.

Until the police start realizing they’re under the microscope and being recorded constantly, and modify their behavior based on the situation, then we will never get away from these situations and we will be talking about this same issue for a long time.

I also think we are seeing the product of lack of resources. Around here, a rookie cop starts at about 45-50k. You aren’t going to consistently attract great candidates for a job that requires you to put your life on the line for that kind of money.
Poor recruitment criteria and practices followed by poor training and inept leadership have gotten us where we are, pretty much across the board.

Minneapolis is a great example. Look at the experience levels and backgrounds of the cops who have fubar'ed by the numbers there in the cases we are aware of, and then look at management responses.
 

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Ok. So the argument is he could be Mr Miyagi about to “wax on, wax off” a squad of cops. Got it.

What about the part where they walked past him bleeding from his head, with only one cop appearing to get on his radio but rendering no aid?

Back to my original point. I see several instances of poor decision making by the police. And even if it’s “borderline poor”, right now there is little room for gray area given the temperature in this country.
What about beyond poor, horrible, decision making by citizens? Does this guy bear no responsibility for stupidly confronting police? Is "Stupid" a new protected class?

I guess that is my "privilege" for having an above room temperature IQ talking.
 

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He deliberately blocked one officer's way while reaching two, maybe three times toward a second officer's sidearm. Truly unfortunate outcome, but he did play a game...
What stupid game, standing?
And then the police stopped allowing people to assist him.

You support that?

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I played the video over & over. While it's extremely clear video up until he "appears to put his hand next to the officer's side arm". A good way to get shot, in my opinion. He was given "multiple, verbal warnings". I have always listen to any instructions an officer has directed to me. Others may choose as they wish.
 
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