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They resigned from the unit, but not from the department...according to the NY Post. Not much of a protest from the officers. Will be interesting to see how many try to find jobs in suburban departments.
I'm friends with a few here in Buffalo and I have trained several. I do not hear much good on the support they receive from the politicians and higher echelon folks. I'm sure some will leave.
 

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What stupid game, standing?
And then the police stopped allowing people to assist him.

You support that?

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The officers were very clearly advancing for a purpose and this guy interfered. The shove did not appear to be malicious and whether they knew the guys age or not is unknown. It also appeared the guy lost his balance fairly easy which of course could be an age related thing. Suspension without pay is uncalled for in this incident. The man was not being violent at all but he was interfering.
 

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I think that a few bad apples have ruined the bunch in the minds of many Americans. But I also think that we are seeing lots of examples of police officers not using their heads. If I’m out protesting (40 years old, 6’3” and 250 lbs) and getting a bit too aggressive, they need to treat me differently from a 75 year old man.

Put it this way, if an old lady hits me with her purse, I’m walking away. If a teenager hits me with his backpack, I’m cleaning his clock. Situational awareness and disparity of force seems to be lacking in a lot of the incidents.

Until the police start realizing they’re under the microscope and being recorded constantly, and modify their behavior based on the situation, then we will never get away from these situations and we will be talking about this same issue for a long time.

I also think we are seeing the product of lack of resources. Around here, a rookie cop starts at about 45-50k. You aren’t going to consistently attract great candidates for a job that requires you to put your life on the line for that kind of money.
Have you looked into this to see if you are correct. My former agency starts around $50 give or take. Little more for college degrees. The vast majority of our officers have a college degree or are working on it. We have folks leaving other better paying jobs to become officers. Hell, we had one guy leave an excellent paying financial career to join us only to be killed in the LOD a few years into the job. I don't know your area or the agencies hiring policies but we have so many applicants on test day and with the poly we maybe only hire one of twelve applicants.
 

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What stupid game, standing?
And then the police stopped allowing people to assist him.

You support that?

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The video is just a glimpse of what happened. There are facts we simply don't know. What are the protocol for a riot control line? Why did the cops decide to not assist initially? Did they know assistance was coming and they had to maintain the line? He was assisted near the end of one of the videos I saw. He did put his hands on the cops, etc.

I can't decide if what happened was right or wrong. Need more information.

But we have go to get over this foolishness that a video clip should serve as judge, jury and executioner.
 

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The way we were taught is that if you need to put your hands on someone, then you need to arrest them.

It didn’t look to me like he was arrested, and I would say this will be an issue for them in civil court. JMO.
Why would members of the Civil Disturbance team be making the arrest. This should be done by members of the support officers coming in from behind. CD needs to stay in position to do their jobs.
 

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As for the other police officers resigning from the riot team...

They are probably exhausted, they know that most cops are not genocidal racists as portrayed by BLM and the media, they have been spit on and pummeled, incompetent officials nation wide are offering no praise and ample criticism, they seen no end in sight to this madness, and they may know more facts than we do about the incident.

So yeah, I guess I can see why they said "enough."
 

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What do you think about it?
The two jerks who shoved him to the pavement should lose their badges.

Both of my brothers are LEOs and I get an earful from them about the "bad apples" and how they never seem to be purged from the ranks. Both work for small depts and they say the troublemakers are often "connected" and seem to be invulnerable to discipline.

Probably not the case in a big city like Buffalo, though.
 

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It was a poor choice of actions on both sides of the batons. The old guy looked like he was reaching towards the officer's weapon or duty belt, maybe to ask a question, but he had his cell phone in his hand, so I got the impression he was pointing to something on the duty belt with his phone. But as previously said, where's the logic in moving directly in front of a marching line of LEOs in riot gear, acting as though you are putting hands on one of them, and not expecting to be shoved out of the way? Hard to tell what his intentions were. That the officers just walked away and left him to lay there is reason for some concern.

But I can only imagine the dressing down they received from their commanders. With the current, ongoing, riotous events occurring on the streets of America, one would think that every LEO working control & response would be conscious of maintaining more control of their own, personal responses. They know they are being recorded on countless cell phones, so this is not a time to be screwing up. And I get that things happen in the moment in crowd control situations, but these guys have training that the crowd doesn't. It doesn't always have to be rote, storm trooper response tactics. If the old guy was in wheel chair would they have pushed him over? Makes one wonder how they treat their own, elderly fathers.
 

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Have you looked into this to see if you are correct. My former agency starts around $50 give or take. Little more for college degrees. The vast majority of our officers have a college degree or are working on it. We have folks leaving other better paying jobs to become officers. Hell, we had one guy leave an excellent paying financial career to join us only to be killed in the LOD a few years into the job. I don't know your area or the agencies hiring policies but we have so many applicants on test day and with the poly we maybe only hire one of twelve applicants.
Yep, the starting wage is accurate. Now, that doesn’t include OT, but it’s accurate for rookies.
 

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The video doesn’t seem like such action seemed warranted by the police. The officer who pushed him got a running start.
One step from a stand is hardly a running start. You grab an officer, especially near his sidearm, you're going down. Buffalo is a stupid place. They built the subway to connect the State University at Buffalo to the Amherst campus even though there was no money for it. Ride the subway, get mugged. Hardly used when I lived there. SOOOOOO glad I moved away from that terrorist state.
 

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You call that brutality? Not even close. Rodney King was brutality. This was a shove, that was provoked. If you snowflake any police use of force as brutality, then we are on a slippery slope.
Thank you for supporting my claim.

Oh really. Please share with us your pearls of wisdom on this.
This right here is a good example.
 

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Discussion Starter #55
One step from a stand is hardly a running start.
Exactly. He wasn't pushed that hard. He started backing up and lost his balance..or fell down on purpose for dramatic effect.

He walked towards the police, he inserted himself into the scene to show off for the demonstrators. He was holding a cell phone, I wonder if it was set to record his "brave" confrontation with the police?

As for the 2 cops, they should have been told that next time, just walk around the guy...don't give the media the fodder they so desperately desire.

I'm so sick of these protesters. It's so far from being about George Floyd. It's about the destruction of our country and remaking it into the Liberal Fascist Utopia they've been dreaming about for decades.
 

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With the political atmosphere , the officers will be cannon fodder .
 
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With the political atmosphere , the officers will be cannon fodder .
That’s a point I was trying to make but it got missed. Regardless of whether some of these incidents were “by the book” policing, at some point, some officers need to see the PR issue they currently have and avoid the lightening rod behaviors that keep fanning the flames.

Yep, old guy was probably an instigator and shouldn’t have challenged them. But they pushed back, he fell and hit his head, and they marched on. Looks bad to many people, regardless of the circumstances. Regardless of whether or not this was proper police procedure.
 

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If this guy was 25-50 years old would the outrage be as strong ?
 
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