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Hi. I'm new to guns. I live in a state where universal background checks are not required (for private sale). I am perfectly legal to own a firearm, but I would rather go through a private seller because I know the govt probably uses the background check system as a registry for firearms and I just don't like the idea of the feds knowing what gun I own and when/where I purchased it. I always thought that private sales included things like certain sellers at gun shows and certain sellers on sites like armslist.com and similar sites. However, I just saw a youtube video where a guy goes to several gun shows in Indiana and tries to purchase a gun without a background check and is turned away. I've also heard that most private sellers, although not required to perform a background check, will still choose to perform one, in order to cover their own asses in case you turn out to be a felon. Is there any reasonable, legal way to purchase a gun without having to give my information to the federal government, or should I just say to heck with it and do the background check?
 

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You couldn't do a background check if you wanted to as there is no provision for private citizens to do so.

A private sale is a private sale. Period. NO background check is required...unless you live in one of the few states that do in which case you must pay an FFL to do it for you.
 

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You couldn't do a background check if you wanted to as there is no provision for private citizens to do so.

A private sale is a private sale. Period. NO background check is required...unless you live in one of the few states that do in which case you must pay an FFL to do it for you.
Yeah that's what I meant. I read that most private sellers (with the exception of selling to a personal friend or family member) will go through an FFL to do a background check, just to be safe. Then again, maybe they were referring to guns shipped by UPS to the purchaser, in which case it may be required to go through an FFL.

So you're saying it's possible (and realistic) to buy from a private seller on armslist.com or similar sites without going through an FFL?
 

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No. I am not saying that .Any interstate transfer is required to go through an FFL.

A private seller cannot ship to another person across state lines. All of the gun sites require an FFL for the transaction.

And what ever you read may apply in one state but not all. No one here worries about background checks in a private sale. If anything in the sale raises a red flag, just dont sell it.

Its not hard.
 

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I meant if you were saying it was possible to buy from a private seller on armslist.com assuming it was not shipped and we lived in the same state. Sorry for not clarifying. Thanks for the replies.
 

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The way it is done here is most people do a bill of sale. Just simple who, and what plus S/N. If you feel the guy is not a good guy don't sale/buy from him. I have check a few guys face book page and decided I would not do business with them.
 

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Yeah that's what I meant. I read that most private sellers (with the exception of selling to a personal friend or family member) will go through an FFL to do a background check, just to be safe. Then again, maybe they were referring to guns shipped by UPS to the purchaser, in which case it may be required to go through an FFL.

So you're saying it's possible (and realistic) to buy from a private seller on armslist.com or similar sites without going through an FFL?
If you are buying a firearm from a private seller, no background check is required provided that you and the seller reside in the same state. A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law (except where prohibited by state law).

You can't buy a gun from any out of state party, private or retailer unless the final transfer is made over the counter by an FFL in your state of residency.
 

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I meant if you were saying it was possible to buy from a private seller on armslist.com assuming it was not shipped and we lived in the same state. Sorry for not clarifying. Thanks for the replies.
Yes, depending on what State you live in. In Ohio it is legal. I have bought and sold many guns for decades.
 

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I've sold 2 firearms privately. All face to face I prefer a valid License To Carry , if not a DL will do.

One was a nice young lady with a severe vision impairment ( legally blind) she had a valid CHL and wanted the firearm to shoot in competition. The other was a retiring Corrections Officer.


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We have bought from private individuals living in our same state, and I recently sold one gun privately to a fellow in our sportsman club who shoots in one of our groups. Even with him I required proof that he is "legal" to buy my gun. He doesn't have a carry permit, but had recently purchased another gun from a local shop and had the receipt for it, which means he recently passed a background check, so I made out the bill of sale and we were fine.

Protecting yourself to make sure you are not buying a stolen gun or selling a gun to a person who can not pass the background check is a sensible thing to do. Everything else the folks said about buying of selling across state lines is true - you must go through a dealer with an FFL.
 

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Hi. I'm new to guns. I live in a state where universal background checks are not required (for private sale). I am perfectly legal to own a firearm, but I would rather go through a private seller because I know the govt probably uses the background check system as a registry for firearms and I just don't like the idea of the feds knowing what gun I own and when/where I purchased it. I always thought that private sales included things like certain sellers at gun shows and certain sellers on sites like armslist.com and similar sites. However, I just saw a youtube video where a guy goes to several gun shows in Indiana and tries to purchase a gun without a background check and is turned away. I've also heard that most private sellers, although not required to perform a background check, will still choose to perform one, in order to cover their own asses in case you turn out to be a felon. Is there any reasonable, legal way to purchase a gun without having to give my information to the federal government, or should I just say to heck with it and do the background check?

I personally think doing background checks strengthens the gun ownership community. It, if nothing else, puts a proven statistic out there as to just how popular firearms are in this here United States.

Also, supposedly, none of the information in the background check is recorded. The only thing kept is the form 4473 that is filed and stored by the selling party/dealer.
 

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Also, supposedly, none of the information in the background check is recorded. The only thing kept is the form 4473 that is filed and stored by the selling party/dealer.
"Supposedly" is the operative word there. But if you don't have to fill out the form, and thus leave no record of the transaction, there's no possibility that someone, somewhere is keeping track of what you bought. Why give them the chance??
 

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I personally think doing background checks strengthens the gun ownership community. It, if nothing else, puts a proven statistic out there as to just how popular firearms are in this here United States.

Also, supposedly, none of the information in the background check is recorded. The only thing kept is the form 4473 that is filed and stored by the selling party/dealer.
Sorry, but the ATF scans all of those 4473 forms into their database when the FFL closes. It's a gun registry.........nothing more nothing less. How did America make it this far up until 1968? Government gun control intervention has never calmed the heart of a murderer or robber or villain who by his own twisted nature would do harm to others.
 
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Also, supposedly, none of the information in the background check is recorded.
:rofl:

and yet... I've had the ATF admit that they do record contrary to the law.

One agent told me that they only hold records for 90 days. Then I was told to let them see 4473 for the last year so that they could verify the NICS transaction numbers. So I asked" If you are only keeping records for 90 days, how is it that you can verify records for a year?

And I was told " Oh...thats what they tell us to say".


I personally think doing background checks strengthens the gun ownership community.
I personally believe you've been duped. They are using background checks to essentially register purchases...but hey...dont let me sway you. Check it out yourself.
 

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The way it is done here is most people do a bill of sale. Just simple who, and what plus S/N. If you feel the guy is not a good guy don't sale/buy from him. I have check a few guys face book page and decided I would not do business with them.
Yep. Whenever I have sold a gun to another individual (even my son) I put together a bill of sale. Name, date, serial number of weapon, brand, model and caliber of the weapon, the price and have them sign it. This is for my protection, not theirs. If the weapon is used, for some reason, in a crime it is still going to show up in federal records as registered to me. I want evidence that the weapon has left my ownership and is no longer my responsibility.

I only private sell to people I know and trust (relatives, colleagues, friends, etc.). No strangers.
 

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Sorry, but the ATF scans all of those 4473 forms into their database when the FFL closes. It's a gun registry.........nothing more nothing less. How did America make it this far up until 1968? Government gun control intervention has never calmed the heart of a murderer or robber or villain who by his own twisted nature would do harm to others.
Yes, I was aware that the closing of an FFL meant relinquishing records to the ATF. It is a scary thought.

Maybe I should be rethinking my statement.
 

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:rofl:

and yet... I've had the ATF admit that they do record contrary to the law.

One agent told me that they only hold records for 90 days. Then I was told to let them see 4473 for the last year so that they could verify the NICS transaction numbers. So I asked" If you are only keeping records for 90 days, how is it that you can verify records for a year?

And I was told " Oh...thats what they tell us to say".




I personally believe you've been duped. They are using background checks to essentially register purchases...but hey...dont let me sway you. Check it out yourself.
I suppose you are correct. Dunno what I was thinking. A background check could be done with absolutely no information other than name, DOB and SSN using none of the firearm information at all. I was under the impression that they only asked if the firearm is a handgun or long gun as to my memory when I called them in for gun sales. I did know that the firearm description and serial number is recorded on the 4473.
 

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I did know that the firearm description and serial number is recorded on the 4473.
Then immediately matched to the manufacturer's or importer's manifest given to ATF. Then the firearm is forever matched to you.
 

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Then immediately matched to the manufacturer's or importer's manifest given to ATF. Then the firearm is forever matched to you.
Explain that a little more in detail. I have never heard of or seen this happen. Who actually matches the SN# and buyers information to a manifest?

What I remember, from selling guns at a retail store, was recording the SN# of every firearm we received for resale into a log book, then writing the information of the buyer into the log book next to the firearm information. The log book never left the store though unless the store closed business and nothing we wrote ever got faxed or sent to the ATF/FBI.
 

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Hi. I'm new to guns. I live in a state where universal background checks are not required (for private sale). I am perfectly legal to own a firearm, but I would rather go through a private seller because I know the govt probably uses the background check system as a registry for firearms and I just don't like the idea of the feds knowing what gun I own and when/where I purchased it. I always thought that private sales included things like certain sellers at gun shows and certain sellers on sites like armslist.com and similar sites. However, I just saw a youtube video where a guy goes to several gun shows in Indiana and tries to purchase a gun without a background check and is turned away. I've also heard that most private sellers, although not required to perform a background check, will still choose to perform one, in order to cover their own asses in case you turn out to be a felon. Is there any reasonable, legal way to purchase a gun without having to give my information to the federal government, or should I just say to heck with it and do the background check?
It completely depends on your state. I would check out your state laws. My state has different rules regarding long guns vs. handguns. Some states are moving to BGC all the time, no matter what. Some states don't specifically require a NCIB, but require other red tape which amounts to registry directly or by default.
 
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