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Discussion Starter #1
The CA legislature has passed and sent to the governor a bill that expands the list of who can request a red flag from just family members and law enforcement to employers, co-workers and high school and college teachers and administrators. What's next? Ex-lovers, bartenders, hair dressers?

CA is also considering a bill that would allow judges to make red flag judgments last up to five years, although the person red flagged could appeal it annually. My guess is that five years would eventually become the default in the court system and the appeals would not be easy. Proving that you are not a threat is trying to prove a negative, which is pretty difficult.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-09-09/california-gun-violence-restraining-orders-red-flag-law
 

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How about a black flag for the real threat? All the inner city illegal gun owners who are the real drivers of the gun death numbers.

4 months shootings in Chicago and Detroit surpass all the mass shootings in the history of the US combined
 

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Thank God Texas is not like this. My employer is very anti gun even to the point where they told me to not openly discuss anything about firearms in the office. I would not put it by someone in our ultra liberal management to possibly consider reporting something under an expanded red flag law if it existed here. Keep in mind that I was only speaking about different firearm models and features/cost. I did not even mention anything about firing a weapon. :rolleyes:
 

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Thank God Texas is not like this. My employer is very anti gun even to the point where they told me to not openly discuss anything about firearms in the office. I would not put it by someone in our ultra liberal management to possibly consider reporting something under an expanded red flag law if it existed here. Keep in mind that I was only speaking about different firearm models and features/cost. I did not even mention anything about firing a weapon. :rolleyes:

Sadly I believe that Texas AND my home state of NC will both be democrat states within the next 5 years. Just look at Beto and what all he is proposing, just as bad as CA! He has a snowball chance in hades at winning now however his mind set is what a lot of folks are following.

It all is in the schools, it’s the schools that are teaching American kids to be anti’s. 10 years ago I went back to school and it was sickening what all the text books were teaching!

Read the kids school books for an answer to where we will be next, they ain’t hiding it!
 

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10 years ago I went back to school and it was sickening what all the text books were teaching!

Read the kids school books for an answer to where we will be next, they ain’t hiding it!
I went back to college 30 years ago and saw it. I used to argue with a poly sci constantly. I would set in my seat with my feet up and he would as "What Are You Doing" I would answer "It is Getting Deep And I Don't Have My Boots On". And of course this was in Kalifornia. But it has spread.
 

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I actually felt sorry for my professor; She was head of the psychology dept and also a Christian. I called her (in private after class) on a few things the text books said and she just looked at me kinda sad and couldn’t say much except that it was “in the book”.

Not all professors are liberal, most but not all. The one’s that are not must be in hell teaching something that they truly do not believe - I personally wouldn’t do it, don’t want money that bad.
 

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I can hear old Joseph Stalin stirring in his grave...He must be so pleased with CA politicians!

Current aficionados of communism should read the unadulterated editions of the history of the Soviet Union. They should pay particular attention to what happened to all the "free thinkers" in universities.
 

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This whole Red Flag deal is the hill on which the pro-2A-ers should be planting flag on in the refusal to budge one inch, IMO. It is ultimately the gun-grab endgame, where anyone's guns can be taken at any time without due process simply based on the say-so of whoever. Forget Walmart and pay attention to the bigger picture.
 

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How about a black flag for the real threat? All the inner city illegal gun owners who are the real drivers of the gun death numbers.

4 months shootings in Chicago and Detroit surpass all the mass shootings in the history of the US combined

- city gun violence never really drove gun control because in most cases the victim and suspect know each other
- it's the RANDOM shootings that strike the most fear because innocents get shot versus drug dealer shooting drug dealer, which nobody cares about

- the Aderall (amphetamine) Klonopin (cat tranqualizers) ADHD participation-throphy, 'you are special' generation from the 80s and 90's is ALL GROWN UP NOW and out there in society
- these are the NUTJOBS doing all this mass murder

- THESE people need to be REDFLAGGED for creepy behavior, internet threats, 4chan posting, etc etc..

- so I'm for red-flagging. But then again I have nothing to be flagged about. I follow the golden rule, and keep my mouth SHUT unless I have something nice or constructive to say.
 

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- city gun violence never really drove gun control because in most cases the victim and suspect know each other
- it's the RANDOM shootings that strike the most fear because innocents get shot versus drug dealer shooting drug dealer, which nobody cares about

- the Aderall (amphetamine) Klonopin (cat tranqualizers) ADHD participation-throphy, 'you are special' generation from the 80s and 90's is ALL GROWN UP NOW and out there in society
- these are the NUTJOBS doing all this mass murder

- THESE people need to be REDFLAGGED for creepy behavior, internet threats, 4chan posting, etc etc..

- so I'm for red-flagging. But then again I have nothing to be flagged about. I follow the golden rule, and keep my mouth SHUT unless I have something nice or constructive to say.
Please keep your Constitution hating self in California...please.
 

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employers, co-workers and high school and college teachers and administrators.

One suspects that the antis among them just might consider it their duty to flag any and all gun owners. Is there no downside if this happens? Could they be sued if they are lying, for example? Just wondering.

.
 

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employers, co-workers and high school and college teachers and administrators.

One suspects that the antis among them just might consider it their duty to flag any and all gun owners. Is there no downside if this happens? Could they be sued if they are lying, for example? Just wondering.

.
No consequences. As I’ve said before eventually just being a gun owner will raise the red flag, that’s the endgame comrade.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
One suspects that the antis among them just might consider it their duty to flag any and all gun owners. Is there no downside if this happens? Could they be sued if they are lying, for example? Just wondering.
CA law makes the act of intentionally creating a false accusation under red flag a misdemeanor. And yes, if you could prove someone did this maliciously, you could probably sue. But the big problem is proving that would be almost impossible. Consider that a red flag can be done without:
  • Any prior due process
  • Any involvement of clinical psychological professionals and therefore no clinical evaluation of the subject
  • The subject having made any threats or committed any threatening actions
  • The subject being accused of being a danger to anyone but himself
In addition, "evidence" that is allowed under the law is that the subject has recently bought "a lot" of guns and/or ammunition. The atmosphere today is "see something, say something" and people being "triggered" into "feeling threatened." There are factions in CA is actually promoting the use of red flag with LE training, websites and PSAs.

So someone doesn't really have to lie to bring a red flag charge against you. They just have to say you own guns and they feel threatened. And we know a lot of people feel threatened just because you own guns and seem like someone who stands up for himself. If no real facts have to be presented to get red flagged, how you prove they maliciously presented false facts? If you have ever had an argument with someone, no matter how justified, that just ices that cake.

Seven years ago I worked in HR at a big company in PA. We were doing layoffs. Hundreds of people were given two weeks notice their job was ending. They had a chance to say goodbye, clean out their desks, etc. Some even had layoff parties. But I know of at least one instance where a guy who had done nothing wrong was given no notice, not allowed to clean out his desk and marched out of the building with his access card confiscated. Why? It was known he had studied martial arts and that he owned firearms. The company never said that, but I'm convinced that was the sole reason. That was not in line with HR policy at all, they just did it.
 

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- city gun violence never really drove gun control because in most cases the victim and suspect know each other
- it's the RANDOM shootings that strike the most fear because innocents get shot versus drug dealer shooting drug dealer, which nobody cares about

- the Aderall (amphetamine) Klonopin (cat tranqualizers) ADHD participation-throphy, 'you are special' generation from the 80s and 90's is ALL GROWN UP NOW and out there in society
- these are the NUTJOBS doing all this mass murder

- THESE people need to be REDFLAGGED for creepy behavior, internet threats, 4chan posting, etc etc..

- so I'm for red-flagging. But then again I have nothing to be flagged about. I follow the golden rule, and keep my mouth SHUT unless I have something nice or constructive to say.
Oh look, another new member trying to tell us red flag laws are a good thing.
 

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- city gun violence

- so I'm for red-flagging. But then again I have nothing to be flagged about. I follow the golden rule, and keep my mouth SHUT unless I have something nice or constructive to say.

First of all there IS NO SUCH THING AS GUN VIOLENCE. Guns are inanimate objects and by themselves can do NOTHING. The violence is evil/sick people doing evil/sick acts using guns.

Second

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out–

Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out–
Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out–
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me–and there was no one left to speak for me.
 

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This whole Red Flag deal is the hill on which the pro-2A-ers should be planting flag on in the refusal to budge one inch, IMO. It is ultimately the gun-grab endgame, where anyone's guns can be taken at any time without due process simply based on the say-so of whoever. Forget Walmart and pay attention to the bigger picture.
I almost talked myself out of a voice in wasted effort trying to get people to see the “bigger picture” when the Delaware Legislature was busying themselves preparing to pass the State’s “red flag” statute. It was akin to pushing a rope up a hill or beating one’s forehead against a brick wall. The concept was whole heartedly backed by the NRA lobbyists along with the Delaware Shooting Sports Association and it passed the legislature with unanimous support. EVERY SINGLE SENATOR and REPRESENTATIVE, Democrat and Republican alike, voted for the abomination that was passed. Republican turncoats used the fact that both the NRA and DSSA supported the bill as cover to justify their actions. These “red flag” bills are the most dangerous threats to gun owner’s rights in my lifetime. It seems no one could or would stop to consider that judges are human beings. No judge is going to want to be the person that denied an order to then wakeup in the morning to see the individual that they didn’t “red flag” did in fact go on a shooting rampage. Judges will invariably err on the side of their interests and not on the side of the accused individual’s rights.
 
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