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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello, I have been reading the forums and would be interested in what your thoughts might be on how the 25 acp cartridge might be transformed into an effective round. I understand the issues and thoughts of knowledgeable people on this forum. I am interested in starting a discussion on what might make this a potent SD round, i.e. thinking outside the box (assuming anything could be done of course).

All the best.

PS: I just realized this post belongs in "Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics" so I hope one of the forum moderators will move it there.
 

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Can a 25 be made into a effective round? Maybe if you stuff it in a necked down rifle cartridge, or stretch the lead to about double its .25" diameter.
 

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Welcome to the forum by the way. :wave:

In short, the answer you're more than likely to find here is - No, perhaps as a last ditch BUG, but I doubt you're going to find anyway to make the .25 into an effective SD round.

Now then, there was an article in Shotgun News (Volume 63, Issue 20, cover date July 20,2009) where the author makes mention of Winchester 45 grain expanding point ammunition. "It is a jacketed hollow point bullet with a lead pellet in the hollow points cavity and it will penetrate the deepest, together with providing the greatest amount of expansion." (Author's words, not mine)

I guess if a .25 is what you have to work with, I'd look for some of that.
 

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I've heard it said many times that you're better off with a good .22LR.
 

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With the proper application of elastic compound cylinders and organically derived framing, the .25 is an outstanding round. Capable of reaching a blistering 70 fps from the initial release of the contraption at one's target.

Unless you have a slingshot handy, no, it's not very good.

Sort of the universally despised caliber, actually.

Oops, now I'm a target...
 

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I've heard it said many times that you're better off with a good .22LR.
That would be my opinion on the subject. That or shoot 'em in the eye.
 

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anything can be use for a last ditch. I would relay more on the steel shrouded ball point then a .25.

do not take that to mean I am willing to be shot with one though.
"a gun of any caliber in the hand is better then a .45 in the safe."
 

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Read some of the current "mousegun" threads on this forum.

:banghead:

Biker
 

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Yes, with proper shot placement.:yup::rolleyes:
 

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on the job i have seen many that have been killed with a 25 acp. also i have seen many that have been shot with one and it did not do much. come to think about it i have seen some shot with larger cals and they did not do much. proper shot placement is the key with any hand gun. go ahead and make fun of the 25 acp, but i don't see any one wanting to get shot by one. a 25 acp in hand is better than two 45 acp back home or in the car.
 

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I have shot a Beretta Jetfire in .25 and like all mouseguns, I would not want to volunteer to catch a bullet from one. The advantage is that the guns are small that they tend to get carried more than their larger caliber counterparts.
 

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I Have Your Answer!

I have applied mathematics to your question and have found the perfect answer.

The average .25 ACP cartridge has a muzzle energy of 64.93 ft/lbs, and the .25 NAA cartridge has a muzzle energy of 127.00 ft/lbs.

Let's say that your firearm is the NAA Guardian .25 sub-compact pistol. This pistol weighs 13.57 oz. empty, which is to say it weighs 5,936.88 grains. If you could throw it at 95 mph, which is the speed that Major League baseball pitchers throw a fast ball. That velocity works out to be 139.36 fps, and will yield 257.51 ft/lbs of energy on your target.

This tells us that you will have a much higher energy on target if you just become more proficient in throwing your empty .25 caliber handgun. (Please be sure to remove the ammunition from the handgun before throwing to avoid an accidental discharge... Safety first.)

.25 ACP Cartridge
Projectile weight - 45 gr
Projectile velocity - 804 fps
Projectile energy - 64.93 ft/lbs

.25 NAA Cartridge
Projectile weight - 35 gr
Projectile velocity - 1275 fps
Projectile energy - 127.00 ft/lbs

Thrown Handgun
Projectile weight - 5,936.88 gr
Projectile velocity - 139.36 fps
Projectile energy - 257.51 ft/lbs

Behold The Power of Mathematics!

Check it out for yourself: http://www.classifiercalc.com/misc_calcs/me.php


Safety Notice - Whether it is shot or thrown, you can still put an eye out with a .25 caliber handgun!
 

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Sure it can be an effective round; it can be an effective precursor to having the gun shooting it being turned into a very effective rectal thermometer if you attempt to use it on the right BG.....
 

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Unfortunately, there's nothing that can be done to improve the two factors working against the .25, size and velocity. While the velocity could be boosted, the guns designed for this caliber could not stand up to the increased pressure. If you expanded the size, well of course it would no longer be a .25.
You would be better off with a .22, which is smaller but has significantly more velocity, or better yet, a .22 Magnum.
 

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Even Massad Ayoob has stated that, were he forced to carry ONLY a .25ACP...he would "probably violate a basic firearm defense principle....and go for a head shot, rather than COM..."
I'm good with that philosophy...and I'll stick to my 9MM or .38Spl....
 

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As long as it's purpose and limits are known and understood, there's no reason a person can't defend themselves with any firearm including a .25acp. Hirtenberger .25acp is at least a little more powerful round than most and what I'd want if carrying the round.

25 ACP (6.35x15.5mm) -- 35 gr Frangible, 1150 fps, 103 ftlbs. Glaser Safety Slug, safe plinking, 2.4 inch barrel
25 ACP + P (6.35x15.5mm) -- 50 gr TMJ, 850 fps, 80 ftlbs. Custom Cartridge, shoots through a 2x4 pine construction beam

I disagree on those that claim a rimfire .22lr would be a better choice just on the basis of having the more reliable igntion of the centerfire .25acp. There's no great performance difference, but rimfire reliability is less than centerfire.

Of course the true value of any tiny firearm is in it's inherent discreet nature. A PSA or TPH can go places many other guns cannot.
 
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