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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I carried a Glock 21SF IWB for over a year, 13 + 1 of 45 acp.
Now my 20SF is going to get a turn, over 520# KE and 15 + 1 capacity.
Note that selected 10mm & 45 loads have a similar calculated recoil (PF).
10mm offers more KE (27% +-) and two additional rounds capacity.

Glock 21SF
Federal HST 230 gr. @ 863 fps / 380# KE / PF 198
Remington Golden Saber 185 +P @ 1,069 fps / 470# KE / PF 198
Winchester Ranger T 230 gr. @ 931 fps / 443# KE / PF 214

Glock 20SF
Corbon 150 JHP @ 1,276 fps / 542# KE / PF 191
Hornady 175 gr. Critical Duty @ 1,158 fps / 521# KE / PF 203
Handload 180 gr. Gold Dot @ 1,146 fps / 525# KE / PF 206

G20SF.jpg
 

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I carried a Glock 21SF IWB for over a year, 13 + 1 of 45 acp.
Now my 20SF is going to get a turn, over 520# KE and 15 + 1 capacity.
Note that selected 10mm & 45 loads have a similar calculated recoil (PF).
10mm offers more KE (27% +-) and two additional rounds capacity.

Glock 21SF
Federal HST 230 gr. @ 863 fps / 380# KE / PF 198
Remington Golden Saber 185 +P @ 1,069 fps / 470# KE / PF 198
Winchester Ranger T 230 gr. @ 931 fps / 443# KE / PF 214

Glock 20SF
Corbon 150 JHP @ 1,276 fps / 542# KE / PF 191
Hornady 175 gr. Critical Duty @ 1,158 fps / 521# KE / PF 203
Handload 180 gr. Gold Dot @ 1,146 fps / 525# KE / PF 206

View attachment 174706
Why are you using such weak loads in the 10mm? You could have that in a G22.
 

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I loved my G20 and I love my G29 even more. I'm more accurate with it and it's slightly easier to carry. Carrying a second mag bolsters my confidence and preparedness.

I second Double Tap, but if you're carrying anything over 165 gr. in 10mm, you don't have too much to worry about.
 

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My issue with Underwood and Double Tap super fast hollow points (155 - 180 grains) is that the bullets shot into gel always look like they are right on the edge of being ripped apart. I always wonder what would happen if that bullet hit bone.

For when I carry my G20, I personally have moved to Hornady 180 grain XTP's. I think they run at 1150. In 4 layer denim gel tests I've seen, they expand to around 0.72" and penetrate around 17.5 ". That might be within 150-200 fps of a 180 grain 40 S&W load, but I've not seen gel results like this from a 40. Seems about perfect for what I want from my 10mm.
 

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My issue with Underwood and Double Tap super fast hollow points (155 - 180 grains) is that the bullets shot into gel always look like they are right on the edge of being ripped apart. I always wonder what would happen if that bullet hit bone.

For when I carry my G20, I personally have moved to Hornady 180 grain XTP's. I think they run at 1150. In 4 layer denim gel tests I've seen, they expand to around 0.72" and penetrate around 17.5 ". That might be within 150-200 fps of a 180 grain 40 S&W load, but I've not seen gel results like this from a 40. Seems about perfect for what I want from my 10mm.
Thats a function of Bullet construction, and why you should select the controlled expansion bullets such as Nosler, which DT offers.

My 40 loads using 180 weight XTP bullets are doing 1100 fps, only 50 less than the same load you use for the 10mm. You might as well be shooting a 40 also.
 
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What about that Double Tap 10mm? I'd like to hear more about it from y'all.

I'm about to chronograph test a couple each of selections of Buffalo Bore 10mm and Underwood 10mm. Am hoping to use the findings as a base from which to build 10mm handloads similar in performance in case the pistol is employed for deer hunting. It'd be fun to pop a deer with the 10mm.
 

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What about that Double Tap 10mm? I'd like to hear more about it from y'all.

I'm about to chronograph test a couple each of selections of Buffalo Bore 10mm and Underwood 10mm. Am hoping to use the findings as a base from which to build 10mm handloads similar in performance in case the pistol is employed for deer hunting. It'd be fun to pop a deer with the 10mm.
For me Bryan, it's just more of a loyalty thing.

Ya see, long before these other Boutique ammo makers came along, and back when the 10mm was fading from existence, Mike McNett started Double Tap ammo with the sole purpose of keeping the 10mm ammo available.
At one time, the Winchester Silvertip was the only 10mm still made by a popular ammo company. Other than that, 10mm ammo , especially full power stuff was as scarce as hens teeth.

Now, these other guys make good ammo for sure, but they are Johnny-come -Lately when it comes to high performance ammo using blended powders.

For those who love the 10mm, they can thank Double Tap that it stayed around.
So just to say thanks, DT gets all of my 10mm ammo business (when I buy ammo).
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Why are you using such weak loads in the 10mm? You could have that in a G22.
I don't consider those loads "weak", I initially had more fps on the 180 handload and backed it down to where it is.
Shot through 4 layer denim into water filled jugs the 180 Gold Dot (as loaded) expanded .75 -.79 exemplary performance.
I see the 20SF (as loaded) to be a higher energy & capacity alternative to the 45, with same "controlability".
I could run hotter loads, at the expense of "controlability".
Mixing loads in the magazine, I find the 180 Gold Dot subjectively less snappy than ...
Hornady 155 XTP @ 1,335 fps / 614# KE / PF 207
Handload 155 XTP @ 1,366 fps / 642# KE / PF 212 (I shot these yesterday and preferred the 180 Gold Dot recoil impulse)

I've got a Glock 22, using "regular" 40 S&W loads, like I did in the 20SF, there is no comparison.
(Same chrono, different day)
Glock 22:
Remington UMC 180 gr. @ 957 fps / 366# KE
Federal Hydra-Shok 180 gr. @ 963 fps / 371# KE
Winchester White Box 180 JHP @ 964 fps / 372# KE
Speer Gold Dot 180 gr. @ 975 fps / 380# KE
Federal HST 180 gr. @ 996 fps / 397# KE

My 180 Gold Dot handload is a solid 150 fps faster than the hottest "regular" 180 gr. out of the G22.
Given an extra 150 fps (or more) KE is increased by at least 24%

I do not regard the 22 as "snappy" with any of the 180 gr. loads listed.
The 20SF has a thicker grip and thicker / heavier slide to mitigate the additional recoil, maintaining "controlability".
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Yup, those are pretty wimpy 10mm loads. My standard carry load is the 175 Win silvertip which clock 1260 fps in my G20. I am currently working up loads around the 180 XTP, we'll see where that goes...
You are doing better than what I see on YouTube Silvertip 175 from a Glock 20SF, 1,170 fps / 533# KE (Comparable to my loads)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Another with Glock 20 length barrel, "just" 1,171 fps with Silvertip
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Nice. What holster will you be using?
I carried the 21SF appendix IWB in a clip-on Fist kydex.
I'm moving back to strong side IWB, have a Blade-Tech UCH (discontinued) that I modified: removed sweat guard, cut short to expose muzzle, fixed cant forward.

I've bought a couple more holsters to try (back up to the modified UCH, two is one concept) but I have trouble finding exactly what I want.
I got one from Vedder with adjustable cant and depth that may work, ordered for a 30SF, so it would be short as possible then I cut the muzzle end open so muzzle can stick out, cut off the small sweat guard, adjusted cant forward as much as possible and applied adhesive sealant which will take awhile to fully harden.
The features I want in a holster are apparently not the norm.

Here is a 1911 in a holster that I modified, was originally for a Glock 21SF, ideal fit IMO: exposed muzzle, cant forward, pistol held in tight to me.
I can easily conceal a full size 1911 under a loose fitting tie dye t-shirt (I always wear a thin shirt between me & holster)
Concealing2.jpg
 

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I do not see it as a compromise for the civilian CCW holder or most in LE. For the 15 or so years I carried a magnum revolver on duty and the next decade off duty I only in two situations wished for a semi auto. The first was as a young cop with an out of the box Smith with a trigger measure in tons, not pounds which felt like it was full of sand. This is why I learned how to work on them, boy how I wanted to carry the 1911 I did in the Army. The second was working for the Border Patrol, walking the dark canyons west of El Paso hunting border bandits, but I did have an 870 with 8 rounds of 00 buck loaded or an M-16.

Recent shootings have reinforced my earlier perception that a good shooter that can keep his head and act decisively does not need a ton of rounds for the vast majority of situations. The surge began in the 1980's when the gang bangers discovered hi cap 9mm's. I think the gun games have accounted quite a bit to the perceived need for so much ammo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I do not see it as a compromise for the civilian CCW holder or most in LE. For the 15 or so years I carried a magnum revolver on duty and the next decade off duty I only in two situations wished for a semi auto. The first was as a young cop with an out of the box Smith with a trigger measure in tons, not pounds which felt like it was full of sand. This is why I learned how to work on them, boy how I wanted to carry the 1911 I did in the Army. The second was working for the Border Patrol, walking the dark canyons west of El Paso hunting border bandits, but I did have an 870 with 8 rounds of 00 buck loaded or an M-16.

Recent shootings have reinforced my earlier perception that a good shooter that can keep his head and act decisively does not need a ton of rounds for the vast majority of situations. The surge began in the 1980's when the gang bangers discovered hi cap 9mm's. I think the gun games have accounted quite a bit to the perceived need for so much ammo.
Was a cop for a couple years (city/county of ~100K), carried for 25+ years and never "needed" a single round of ammo to defend myself.
I started out with 380/38 snub, moved up to subcompact Glock 26/27 moved up to 19/23, moved up to 1911's and eventually 20/21 size.
Larger pistols full size 1911, Glock 20/21 offer a full grip, longer sight radius, more velocity, less recoil, and increased capacity over compacts.
So no, I don't see either the 20 or 21 as a compromise rather a "best choice" (no compromise) if I have to defend myself, point of thread.

I made the thread a "These are the two choices I have" (informative), rather than "Which is best?" (10mm vs 45).

I know how "Which is best?" (10mm vs 45) would go...
"Won't make any difference, either will stop an attacker equally well" (Probably true)
"Pick the one you shoot best" (Equal, with select loads)
"10mm has too much recoil" (Not true, as I've shown)
"10mm cost to much" (Handload, 10mm HP cost no more than 45 HP)
"10mm overpenetrates" (Not true, as I've shown)

I think it quite ironic that if someone started a thread and asked... the consensus would be....
I have a Glock 19 loaded with 15 + 1 of Federal HST 147 gr +P @ 1,044 fps / 356# KE, is that enough for SD? "Oh yea, that's sufficient".
I have a Glock 22 loaded with 15 + 1 of Speer Gold Dot 180 gr. @ 975 fps / 380# KE, is that enough for SD? "Oh yea, that's plenty"
I have a Glock 21 loaded with 13 + 1 of Federal HST 230 gr. @ 863 fps / 380# KE, is that enough for SD? "Lord yes, plenty"
I have a Glock 32 loaded with 13 + 1 of Speer Gold Dot 125 gr. @ 1,344 fps / 501# KE, is that enough for SD? "Oh yea, great choice"

I say that I've got a Glock 20SF loaded with 15 + 1 of Gold Dot 180 @ 1,146 fps / 525# KE and its called... "weak" :blink: :18:
 
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