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I'm curious if anyone here has actual first hand knowledge of a civilian defensive incident where lack of capacity negatively affected the outcome of the encounter for the defender.

Here's why I ask...

I have been carrying a Glock 26 IWB for some years now. Nice gun, decent capacity (11 rounds), reliable, etc. It is however a bit chunky in the size and weight department given my daily level of activity. On a whim, I recently bought an S&W 642 J Frame. It is soooo much more comfortable for me for all day carry. I've even become a decent shot with it out to 10 yards. It does have the one glaring shortcoming however, lack of capacity. Less than half of my 26.

As a civilian who's "mission" is to break contact with and get away from the bad guy, I believe 5 rounds would be enough in the vast majority of cases. The "lack of capacity" issue is still in the back of my mind whenever I carry the J frame however. Is this a valid real world concern? Anyway, just curious and interested in any real situations where "5 for sure" was not enough.
 

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In a non home setting I think you should be fine esp if you have a back up speed load or clip ...Most shootings are over in 1-2 rounds if I remember the statstics ...
 

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Anyone who has ever been in a self defense shooting, and went home with an empty gun, was not carrying enough ammo.
 

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Don’t overthink or hype it.

Just carry something, and make sure that something will be carried is number #1

#2 is to train and become proficient with your choice, which means to practice like you carry, and carry like you practice.

#3 if you are trained and prepared for placing your shots slowfire on a paper plate at 10 yards, then that is what you will do, maybe 50% as well under duress. Make sure your practice is realistic and well rounded.
 

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My 45 Shields have pretty much replaced their double-stacker predecessors on my belt line. I sacrifice nothing on accuracy, stopping power or ease of manipulation, and the Shield is more comfortable to carry and easier to conceal.
 

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[...]
The "lack of capacity" issue is still in the back of my mind whenever I carry the J frame however. Is this a valid real world concern?
[...]
You could buy another J-Frame, and carry it in a homemade under-the-shirt cloth vertical shoulder holster. That gives you a total of 10 rounds.

That's similar to what I do. My backup is a 360sc ultralight .357 in my right front pocket. My primary is a 5" 629 full-underlug .44mag in a homemade under-the-shirt cloth vertical shoulder holster. Every day, from pajamas-off until pajamas-on. I also carry two speedloaders in my left pocket, one for each of the two guns.
 

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5 rounds is not enough for me; despite that I've been carrying 25+ years and never "needed" a single round for SD.
Why?
I'd rather have rounds left over than run out.
Two - three rounds (good hits) may be required to stop an attacker (singular) - link:
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power
Can't count on all shots fired being good hits nor just a singular attacker.
Some people are hard to stop, about 1:10 into video watch as large man acts like bullet wounds are bee stings:


My carry philosophy is: Of the concealable pistols I own, carry one I would prefer in hand if I had to defend myself.
There is nowhere I would prefer to defend my life a 38 snub rather than a Glock 19/23 (or 26) and I carry accordingly.
 

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I have a hard enough time carry one gun, no way I’d want to try carrying two. I’ve struggled with your dilemma, and don’t have any real words of wisdom on the subject. I like what G-Man said most. Otherwise you’ll find yourself second guessing yourself constantly concerning every potential possibility (no matter how unlikely). It’s good that you’re armed...period.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

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I have carried 1911s for longer than some on this board have been alive and have never worried about having only 7-10 rounds. And oh the horror I have even been known to carry a J-frame on occasion with a (gasp) paltry load of only 5 rounds.
 

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I'm curious if anyone here has actual first hand knowledge of a civilian defensive incident where lack of capacity negatively affected the outcome of the encounter for the defender.

Here's why I ask...

I have been carrying a Glock 26 IWB for some years now. Nice gun, decent capacity (11 rounds), reliable, etc. It is however a bit chunky in the size and weight department given my daily level of activity. On a whim, I recently bought an S&W 642 J Frame. It is soooo much more comfortable for me for all day carry. I've even become a decent shot with it out to 10 yards. It does have the one glaring shortcoming however, lack of capacity. Less than half of my 26.

As a civilian who's "mission" is to break contact with and get away from the bad guy, I believe 5 rounds would be enough in the vast majority of cases. The "lack of capacity" issue is still in the back of my mind whenever I carry the J frame however. Is this a valid real world concern? Anyway, just curious and interested in any real situations where "5 for sure" was not enough.
First, welcome from the Texas Gulf Coast.

Second, it is always nice to see someone who is absolutely certain what and how they will need to use a defensive handgun. No uncertainties. Five rounds and the threat is stopped. Full stop. End of story.

Of course, you might be wrong. Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. Lots of folks here carry snubbies. Lots carry 10 round guns. Lots carry 17 round guns. Lots of folks don't carry a gun at all. All that is fine. It is just a certainty that no one can say with any degree of confidence that they will only face the average threat.

Only you can decide for yourself how much you're willing to limit your ability to respond. Again, welcome. :vs_wave:
 

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The capacity of my three carry guns varies from eight to twelve rounds. Capacity is not a deciding factor in which one I carry. If I owned a five-shot snubbie, then my capacity would vary from five to twelve rounds, but it still wouldn't be the deciding factor.
 

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5 rounds is not enough for me; despite that I've been carrying 25+ years and never "needed" a single round for SD.
Why?
I'd rather have rounds left over than run out.
Two - three rounds (good hits) may be required to stop an attacker (singular) - link:
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power
Can't count on all shots fired being good hits nor just a singular attacker.
Some people are hard to stop, about 1:10 into video watch as large man acts like bullet wounds are bee stings:



My carry philosophy is: Of the concealable pistols I own, carry one I would prefer in hand if I had to defend myself.
There is nowhere I would prefer to defend my life a 38 snub rather than a Glock 19/23 (or 26) and I carry accordingly.
Is this the kind of situation your going to find yourself in?
or Is the the kind of situation your going to interject yourself in? a lot of people are not going to get involved in this situation but they are going to "be the best witness they can be"
Some of us have no choice and some could not live with themselves if they didn't interject in this situation.

this individual took 12 of the 13 shots fired by the Officer before he went down.

 

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[...]
This individual took 12 of the 13 shots fired by the Officer before he went down.
[...]
I don't think that guy (or any other guy) would have shrugged off a single well-positioned hit from my 5" .44mag (loaded with full-spec 240gr JHP Underwoods). That's what my focus is: accuracy and very high power. To get the accuracy, I shoot SA exclusively, with a very light trigger. And I finally was able to eliminated any trace of a flinch by lots and lots of practice.
 

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I'm curious if anyone here has actual first hand knowledge of a civilian defensive incident where lack of capacity negatively affected the outcome of the encounter for the defender.

Here's why I ask...

I have been carrying a Glock 26 IWB for some years now. Nice gun, decent capacity (11 rounds), reliable, etc. It is however a bit chunky in the size and weight department given my daily level of activity. On a whim, I recently bought an S&W 642 J Frame. It is soooo much more comfortable for me for all day carry. I've even become a decent shot with it out to 10 yards. It does have the one glaring shortcoming however, lack of capacity. Less than half of my 26.

As a civilian who's "mission" is to break contact with and get away from the bad guy, I believe 5 rounds would be enough in the vast majority of cases. The "lack of capacity" issue is still in the back of my mind whenever I carry the J frame however. Is this a valid real world concern? Anyway, just curious and interested in any real situations where "5 for sure" was not enough.
A reasonable question, however since the number of hypothetical situations is endless, it's not possible to suggest how many rounds are enough.

I carry either a 15+1 or a 10+1 (sometimes extended to a 12+1). I keep telling myself to get better at carrying a spare mag, but I rarely do it. (Hey, it could happen.) These are pistols, however, any your question is about J frames. I'll go with the notion 5 is most likely enough, but ya' just never know.

I discussed this very topic a few years back with an acquaintance who was a "spook" (he never thoroughly explained the term) during the cold war. His answer? He said that he'd never been in a gun fight that required more than a couple of shots.

Another thought are the statistics that we frequently see that tell us that most SD incidents requiring presentation are settled with no shots fired.

And, welcome to our fine forum!

.
 

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Carry whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy in your situation.

I am retired and at home today. I have to go to the grocery store later.

I have a Colt Delta Elite 10mm in condition one with eight plus one rounds @ 3:00 plus a spare eight round magazine @ 9:00 on my belt. I have a Sig P938 9mm in condition one with six plus one rounds plus a spare six round magazine in my pockets. It works for me.

I have been carrying handguns off and on where legal and where possible since 1963. I have not yet had to shoot in self-defense. Statistically, I do not need a gun.

I have never had a fire or needed a fire extinguisher in my life, yet I have several just in case.
 

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My service weapon was an M60 with plenty of belts. Still got beat, but lived.
Didn't EDC for 45 years after that and got beat, but lived.
None of my 3 carry pistols now hold more than 8 rounds. That'll be enough or not -- I'll get beat by something eventually and not live. :dead:
 

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Like others have hinted on, carry how ever many rounds that make you feel comfortable.

For some, that's 10-17 rounds in a double stack, plus a spare mag, plus approx 5-6 rounds in a backup gun, plus an AR15 in the trunk with several reloads. In their mind, that's what they need based on conjure or some one in a billion anecdotal incident that they heard about where several dozen rounds were fired... They usually are also factoring in having to take on a mass shooter, terrorist, gangs, several armed criminals, or being a law enforcement type of situations.

For others, they believe think that the chances of them ever having to use their firearm in their lifetime is slim to none. The chances of them ever having to use their firearm in a self defense situation, and running out of ammo is a billion to one. They base their feelings and comfort level on statistics. They probably do not live in a bad area, avoid going to problem areas, seen the statics on the average number of rounds used in a self defense situation, they value comfort and concealment over being more prepared for the unlikely, and they see their carry gun as an personal protection tool only to get them selves out of harm's way instead of taking on terrorist, multiple criminals, and running to the protection of others.
 

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There is a concept that appears to be vogue that ones concealed carry weapon should have at minimum a capacity of (10) Rds. That appears to be what some firearms trainers are espousing. Is it valid I do not know or is it WAG (Wild Ass Guess). Tom Givens eluded to this in is latest book.
 
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