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Every weapon has its limitations, and, every in-gun round count is enough, until it isn’t. I do not feel helplessly naked if I happen to have only a 5-shot J-snub, but I think back to a street robbery in my “nice” neighborhood, in which one of the five suspects had a shotgun, and another had a 9mm pistol. I know it was a 9mm pistol, because it was fired, and there were 9mm fired cases on the ground. The complainant actually survived by bolting off the X, and jumping two fences. He was a lean, fast teenager; I would not be able to clear either of those fences, in my current late middle age.

Do a search for the “tactical professor” and/or Claude Werner, if you want to be reassured that a small weapon is a reasonable choice for private citizen defensive carry.

Do a search for Tom Givens, if you want to be assured that an auto, holding 10+ rounds, is a reasonable choice for private citizen defensive carry.

Neither of these gentlemen are wrong.
 

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Before I started carrying a .44mag revolver, my primary was a 10mm Kimber Eclipse Custom II.

Has your Delta Elite always been reliable? It took 3 gunsmiths and several years before my 10mm Eclipse became reliable. But I did like the 10mm round ... not as good as my .44mag, but better than any other semi-auto round.
All three of my Kimbers needed parts replacement, and work, to get them functioning. All were finicky about magazines. They were two Classic Customs, bought in 1997, and a Stainless Gold Match, bought somewhat later, but before the internal safety parts were started. I only trusted one for street/duty carry, and dumped all of them in 2002.
 

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If you watch the YouTube channel, Active Self Protection, you'll see lots of instances where capacity is a life saver. That being said, the ASP guy, John, said he's never seen anyone use a 2nd magazine. But he points out many times when if someone had less capacity, it would not end well for them.
 

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I'm curious if anyone here has actual first hand knowledge of a civilian defensive incident where lack of capacity negatively affected the outcome of the encounter for the defender.

Here's why I ask...

I have been carrying a Glock 26 IWB for some years now. Nice gun, decent capacity (11 rounds), reliable, etc. It is however a bit chunky in the size and weight department given my daily level of activity. On a whim, I recently bought an S&W 642 J Frame. It is soooo much more comfortable for me for all day carry. I've even become a decent shot with it out to 10 yards. It does have the one glaring shortcoming however, lack of capacity. Less than half of my 26.

As a civilian who's "mission" is to break contact with and get away from the bad guy, I believe 5 rounds would be enough in the vast majority of cases. The "lack of capacity" issue is still in the back of my mind whenever I carry the J frame however. Is this a valid real world concern? Anyway, just curious and interested in any real situations where "5 for sure" was not enough.
Somebody else suggested just carrying a second J-frame.

This is not a bad suggestion. I have done it with J-frames.

1. Guns are fallible......maybe not often, but something CAN go wrong--even with a quality revolver. A spare is good. Two is one, one is none.
2. It eliminates the time that would be taken for reloading.
3. It still offers less weight than the G26 and a spare magazine.
4. You can give yourself a nickname starting with "Two-Gun."

:smile:
 

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In my time, only counting the civilian aspect, I've had 2 DGU in the last 30 years and zero rounds were needed. Statistically, I'd have been just as well off with an empty gun so why am I carrying this extra weight I obviously don't need?
Bob, your post is wise as usual..........and funny as usual........but what if I'm not as lucky as you?

:smile:
 

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Bob, your post is wise as usual..........and funny as usual........but what if I'm not as lucky as you?

:smile:
Yeah, I'm not counting on being so lucky if there is a next time so I'm making do with a fully stocked magazine and a spare despite the extra weight and statistics, it gives me a warm fuzzy...
 

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"As a civilian who's "mission" is to break contact with and get away from the bad guy, I believe 5 rounds would be enough in the vast majority of cases". You are absolutely correct !!
 

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Something I've posted before that helps me maintain perspective on capacity:

In the 1970's, Massad Ayoob did extensive research into the Illinois State Police and their use of the S&W Model 39, as they were one of the first large LE organizations (~1500) to adopt autos. He identified four troopers, in three gunfights, over ten years, who he believes survived when they would have been injured or killed due to lack of ammo, if they'd been armed with six-shot revolvers.

So, it can be reasonably approximated that, if one's risk every hour of his life is the same as an average Illinois state trooper on duty for an hour in the 70's, he will encounter a situation where a six-shot revolver has insufficient ammo capacity once every 890 years.

Presumably with a five-shot revolver it would be slightly more frequent.
 

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Regarding John Corriea above - in the many, many defensive shootings/fights he's analyzed, he's seen non-leo reload only a very few times, less than 5, IIRC.
The majority of cases he "analyzed" didn't happen in US. Mostly, South America, some from Eastern Europe. In general, you almost never see a "typical US armed criminal" in videos he posted.
 

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Well, here we all are, yammering away (including myself of course :redface:), and the OP has not resurfaced.

I'd just suggest that he keep his G26, but buy a Sig P365 or the new Hellcat. Both have more capacity and are lighter and less "clunky" than the G26.:five:

And to put his question a different way: "Has anyone who's been in a gunfight ever complained about having too much ammo?? :image035:
 

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What is the appeal of a small revolver when we have similar sized semiauto Pistols that hold 2-3 times as many rounds?

Not trying to start anything I'm genuinely curious.

A hellcat or p365 are similar size and weight to a 642 from what I can tell, they hold 10-11 rounds and can easily be extended to 15+ with a different/spare magazine.
 

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What is the appeal of a small revolver when we have similar sized semiauto Pistols that hold 2-3 times as many rounds?

Not trying to start anything I'm genuinely curious.

A hellcat or p365 are similar size and weight to a 642 from what I can tell, they hold 10-11 rounds and can easily be extended to 15+ with a different/spare magazine.
Superior reliability, ability to fire from a jacket pocket until empty, ability to fire pressed into an assailant till empty,ability to arm a non-gun person, the hardest gun to take away from someone due to short barrel, ideal for those who don't practice failure drills,ability to fire everything from snake shot,wadcutters, JHP etc,etc. Shall I continue?
 

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What is the appeal of a small revolver when we have similar sized semiauto Pistols that hold 2-3 times as many rounds?

That's simple, similar sized semiauto pistols aren't revolvers.

Some people (me) just prefer revolvers and are not the least bit concerned about capacity.

Some people (not me) prefer semiauto pistols and, or capacity.

Plus all that stuff forester58 said.
 

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Superior reliability, ability to fire from a jacket pocket until empty, ability to fire pressed into an assailant till empty,ability to arm a non-gun person, the hardest gun to take away from someone due to short barrel, ideal for those who don't practice failure drills,ability to fire everything from snake shot,wadcutters, JHP etc,etc. Shall I continue?
I'm getting too old for CQB, so I guess I'll have to settle for shooting before contact can be achieved, hopefully. I'm too old to run, too. I'll have to depend on accuracy, and luck. Getting really into my 1911. Yeah, I know today's 9mm is allegedly king, but I'm old school and can't be convinced 45 acp is somehow less lethal. The latest bullet technology covers all calibers, NOT just the 9mm. caliber war? Damn right!
 

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What is the appeal of a small revolver when we have similar sized semiauto Pistols that hold 2-3 times as many rounds?

Not trying to start anything I'm genuinely curious.

A hellcat or p365 are similar size and weight to a 642 from what I can tell, they hold 10-11 rounds and can easily be extended to 15+ with a different/spare magazine.
I haven’t seen an auto pistol that holds a significantly more amount of ammo that I can pocket carry as easily as an airweight j frame revolver.
Nor, have I seen a similar sized auto loader that gives me, or, allows me to do anything I need for SD duties, better than a airweight revolver.

Now, I will readily admit that some may pocket carry a 10 or 15 round auto loader, but it is not germane to my specific abilities.

And, for practical, CQB style applications, I have yet to find anyone who can demonstrate any realistic, meaningful advantage in drills designed to test and measure combat skill that make me want to go with an auto loader of similar size for my philosophy of use.

Also, I can minimize the disadvantages of a revolver with training and practice, but I can’t shrink an auto loader that gives a significant amount of capacity increase down to fit my pockets.

These are my reasons, for my purposes. I would suggest that if anyone wants to know the reality of it, to put them thru a realistic test to verify for yourselves, because what it really comes down to is putting ones own ideas on the alter of testing.
 

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If you watch the YouTube channel, Active Self Protection, you'll see lots of instances where capacity is a life saver. That being said, the ASP guy, John, said he's never seen anyone use a 2nd magazine. But he points out many times when if someone had less capacity, it would not end well for them.
If you watch that youtube channel you also will notice that majority of shooting videos come from South America, some from Eastern Europe. Do not make your decision about what you may face in US based on that collection. Use other sources. Scenarios are different in US. Perpetrators often look and behave quite differently.
 

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"As a civilian who's "mission" is to break contact with and get away from the bad guy, I believe 5 rounds would be enough in the vast majority of cases". You are absolutely correct !!
This maybe unrelated, or maybe it is not. In martial arts club we practive two on one scenarios. No one can fight against 3+ attackers - hand combat - in open space. We always tell: we rely on strength of legs... that we can run away very fast. Why teaching two on one then? Sometimes you are with companion, say, your girl. And if you see hell is about to break loose, you tap her shoulder and say: "run away very fast". If she is smart she will run, and that will help a lot. Though you task in her absense is simpler, you still have to stay for about a minute, not let anyone of them run after her, get as minimal damage as you can, and after a minute it is your time to run.

And this finally brings me to the firearm capacity question, or what total number of rounds to have in you gun and spare magazines. After gun fight started, running away may be quite tricky. Bullets fly faster than any athlete runs. Not impossible, in some surroundings, but much trickier. So, my choice leans towards larger number of rounds. But as wise man said on this thread, make your own assessment. Others only can give you their thoughts of potential situations to help.
 

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So 6 pages in and no one has put up a civilian SD shooting that was negatively impacted by running out of ammo. I'll put up two. Both of the defenders lived to tell their stories.
The first was only a couple years back.
A woman heard someone breaking into her home. She grabbed her child and a 5 shot snub and fled up the attic stairs. When The BG found her he charged up the stairs. She fired all 5 shots hitting him 3 times. The BG staggered out in to the yard and was arrested there. [I don't remember if he died or not.] Had she needed one more she did not have it. But she did defend her and her child successfuly with a 5 shot revolver.

The second was more than 20 years ago.
an older couple were asleep in their bed when they were woken to find a intruder in their bedroom. The old man was fighting him and the old lady pulled her pistol and emptied it at the BG. The BG turned on her and was beating her as the old man pulled his gun and emptied it again into the BG. The BG let go of her and fled out a second floor window. He was arrested later that night with multiple bullet wounds and a broken arm when he walked into a hospital two counties away. I don't know how many rounds were fired but both said the ran their guns empty.

Both were successful, Both were out of ammo, And in more than 20 years those are the only two shootings I can think of that were purely civilian SD events, where ammo may have become a factor in the outcome. There may be others but that is All I know of. DR
 

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I think too many forum members here have been watching to many Bruce Willis movies and have this fantasy that they will get into a running gun battle for hours against hoards of assailants! I'm sorry, but I have to laugh when I read some of these post.
Basically, if you are a common every day CCW'er and not in law enforcement, SWAT or some type of LEO first responded, a simple J frame, Shield, 1911 or any other lower capacity firearm is more than sufficient. If you're up against multiple armed assailants, you're F'ed regardless of what you're carrying. So, you might as well be comfortable when carrying and stop this wet dream fantasy.....
 

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I think too many forum members here have been watching to many Bruce Willis movies and have this fantasy that they will get into a running gun battle for hours against hoards of assailants! I'm sorry, but I have to laugh when I read some of these post.
Basically, if you are a common every day CCW'er and not in law enforcement, SWAT or some type of LEO first responded, a simple J frame, Shield, 1911 or any other lower capacity firearm is more than sufficient. If you're up against multiple armed assailants, you're F'ed regardless of what you're carrying. So, you might as well be comfortable when carrying and stop this wet dream fantasy.....
A little time doing some realistic training and practice would bring those card houses down when they realize that if they are facing 2 or more armed adversaries in any type of shooting situation, they are not going to live long enough to get anywhere near the bottom of that magazine.

Also, in just about every single shooting video, where people are popping off a lot of rounds quickly, it’s obvious that it’s not really helping them, they are just doing it because it makes them feel better.
 
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