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I'm getting too old for CQB, so I guess I'll have to settle for shooting before contact can be achieved, hopefully. I'm too old to run, too. I'll have to depend on accuracy, and luck. Getting really into my 1911. Yeah, I know today's 9mm is allegedly king, but I'm old school and can't be convinced 45 acp is somehow less lethal. The latest bullet technology covers all calibers, NOT just the 9mm. caliber war? Damn right!
Nothing wrong with that at all. I am already beyond running very far myself.
 

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Basically, if you are a common every day CCW'er and not in law enforcement, SWAT or some type of LEO first responded, a simple J frame, Shield, 1911 or any other lower capacity firearm is more than sufficient. If you're up against multiple armed assailants, you're F'ed regardless of what you're carrying. So, you might as well be comfortable when carrying and stop this wet dream fantasy.....
No, you are wrong and have the wrong attitude.

The same BG's that you encounter are the same ones LE encounter. Do you have a crystal ball that tells you how much ammo you may need? Why are you screwed? Only if you have no grasp of tactics, have poor skill, run out of ammo with making a decisive hit.

Wet dream? Fantasy? No some of us have actually dealt with violent felons and understand what we face.

If you are just gonna give up, why even carry a gun?
 

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A little time doing some realistic training and practice would bring those card houses down when they realize that if they are facing 2 or more armed adversaries in any type of shooting situation, they are not going to live long enough to get anywhere near the bottom of that magazine.
You must not have the training. Its just like any other fight, just with guns.....

Dynamic movement, offline, stack them.....

Why don't you tell that to the security guard from Texas at the draw Mohamed contest. Not only was he out outnumbered but they were armed with AK-47's.
 

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You must not have the training. Its just like any other fight, just with guns.....

Dynamic movement, offline, stack them.....

Why don't you tell that to the security guard from Texas at the draw Mohamed contest. Not only was he out outnumbered but they were armed with AK-47's.
You can cherry pick if you want to, but if you are attacked suddenly by multiple attackers with guns already in play, the chances of winning are so slim that it’s not even a debate. This can be reliably demonstrated on demand with any FOF training.

The shooting you are referring to involved multiple police officers and not just one security person returning fire, and it’s not known who actually fired the fatal shots that ended the fight. This is not even in the same ball park as the street scenario that I’m referring to.

Im beginning to think you haven’t had the training when you make a stupid statement such as that void of any realistic expectation in the face of extreme tactical disadvantage.

” Dynamic movement, offline, stack them...”. Lol, yeah, it’s just so easy if ya got the training. :rofl:
Pleeezze.
 

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By the bedside:
1. Belt fed Sub machine gun 100 rounds + extra 100 rd belt

2. submachine gun 17 rounds in 7.62 NATO + 2 extra mags,

Carry:+ 44 BP single action new army 6 round+ 2 extra cylinders.

I kid you not.
 

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By the bedside:
1. Belt fed Sub machine gun 100 rounds + extra 100 rd belt

2. submachine gun 17 rounds in 7.62 NATO + 2 extra mags,

Carry:+ 44 BP single action new army 6 round+ 2 extra cylinders.

I kid you not.
You waited over four years to make this your first post?

Welcome to the forum, sorta...
 
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I think too many forum members here have been watching to many Bruce Willis movies and have this fantasy that they will get into a running gun battle for hours against hoards of assailants! I'm sorry, but I have to laugh when I read some of these post.
Basically, if you are a common every day CCW'er and not in law enforcement, SWAT or some type of LEO first responded, a simple J frame, Shield, 1911 or any other lower capacity firearm is more than sufficient. If you're up against multiple armed assailants, you're F'ed regardless of what you're carrying. So, you might as well be comfortable when carrying and stop this wet dream fantasy.....
Thanks for that. A realist.
6896lXc.gif
 

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You can cherry pick if you want to, but if you are attacked suddenly by multiple attackers with guns already in play, the chances of winning are so slim that it’s not even a debate. This can be reliably demonstrated on demand with any FOF training.

The shooting you are referring to involved multiple police officers and not just one security person returning fire, and it’s not known who actually fired the fatal shots that ended the fight. This is not even in the same ball park as the street scenario that I’m referring to.

Im beginning to think you haven’t had the training when you make a stupid statement such as that void of any realistic expectation in the face of extreme tactical disadvantage.

” Dynamic movement, offline, stack them...”. Lol, yeah, it’s just so easy if ya got the training. :rofl:
Pleeezze.
Cherry pick? Talk about fantasy scenarios......Ok, list the situations; Go ahead.

if you are attacked suddenly by multiple attackers with guns already in play, the chances of winning are so slim that it’s not even a debate.
Yup, I am waiting to hear about all these heavily armed ambushes @ Walmarts across the USA.

Im beginning to think you haven’t had the training when you make a stupid statement such as that void of any realistic expectation in the face of extreme tactical disadvantage.
Oh, launch a counter attack..... How cliche....
 

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Cherry pick? Talk about fantasy scenarios......Ok, list the situations; Go ahead.
.


Nothing far out or fantastic about the possibility of being shot by multiple assailants before you can draw your weapon.




Yup, I am waiting to hear about all these heavily armed ambushes @ Walmarts across the USA.


Awesome! And I am waiting to see you give a demonstration of your movie hero skills and training that make it no big deal to take out multiple armed threats, lol.:haha:




Oh, launch a counter attack..... How cliche....
No need for that at all.
 

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I think most everything about handguns is a compromise. For whatever you gain - you lose something. I prefer to carry a six shot snubbie because it is light, fast, reliable and I shoot it well. If I could increase the capacity and retain those qualities it would make me happy. But that is the gun I have on me all the time. If I knew when, where and how trouble might find me, I would only bother to carry a gun for those occasions - and it would likely be a high capacity super duper. But in the real world I just "pays my money and takes my chances". Three things I feel pretty confident about: 1.) Almost any gun is better than no gun. 2.) If you don't fight you won't win. 3.) What I do works for me but not necessarily for you.
 

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Despite many areas opening up, there's still a lot of tension out there. Tension leads to bad decisions and situations. A .22 is infinitely better than a .00 and 5 is better than 0. In a self-defense situation, as opposed to an LE situation, from what I have read most encounters, out and about, are finished at 3-4 rounds. Most. There's always an exception. I've seen videos of situations where a defensive firearm was not involved, but if I was in them, I'd want as much capacity as I could carry. If it means you carry always, go with the 5. It's your decision.
 

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Nothing far out or fantastic about the possibility of being shot by multiple assailants before you can draw your weapon.







Awesome! And I am waiting to see you give a demonstration of your movie hero skills and training that make it no big deal to take out multiple armed threats, lol.:haha:






No need for that at all.
No. you do not seem to grasp the basics of fighting multiple opponents. Not surprising as it is a tactic that I learned in the Border Patrol and actually instructed. Working for the BP Agents would routinely arrest 100-300 people groups with only 2 Agents. It is not something that you would have learned in the marines as it is personal combat vs multiple opponents and not squad tactics. It is also something that you would be unlikely to learn as a corrections or transport officer for a jail as you would rarely do anything solo. What is surprising is your attitude and rapid attack of something you do not understand, but that is human nature.

Not movie hero skills at all just thought out and properly applied tactics that can be used to break an ambush and or survive an assault by multiple attackers. Lack of knowledge breeds contempt, so its not your fault, just human nature.
 

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As I have said before; Capacity is a self fulfilling prophecy, if you have it you are gonna use it. You can use tactics and skill to mitigate lack of capacity to a certain point. One of the basic concepts of that is that if you are going to use a lower capacity defensive pistol you better have enough gun where one decisive hit can make a difference and you better be a master of it.
 

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As I have said before; Capacity is a self fulfilling prophecy, if you have it you are gonna use it. You can use tactics and skill to mitigate lack of capacity to a certain point. One of the basic concepts of that is that if you are going to use a lower capacity defensive pistol you better have enough gun where one decisive hit can make a difference and you better be a master of it.
I would posit that no matter the capacity of the weapon, one should master the operation of it. More capacity is not a substitute for good weapons handling and tactics. I think that is an across the board truth...
 

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There are some fine people who work for the Border Patrol but lets not pretend that "arresting" ( if you want to call it that), 100-300 people who are not overtly hostile, are not actively fighting you, not trying to harm you and are substantially passive and compliant as some sort of commando operation.. its not. If you manage to control 300 people with 2 agents, its because they let you and not likely because you have some sort of keen grasp of commando tactics.

No matter the training you, me or anyone else has had.. successfully carrying out tactics or strategies depends on a great many things, not just the fact that you have some knowledge in your head. Knowledge, training, and experience all HELP.. but its no guarantee that you win the gold medal simply because you want it. It doesn't mean you win the gold medal simply because you are better, stronger or feel more deserving. Who wins depends on many many things which may or may not be within your purview to control or even influence. There is this little thing called Dispositional attribution and situational attribution.

If I understand your comments ( and I may not), you seem to suggest in absolutes that XYZ will pan out, simply because you desire it. I consider much of what you have said to be unrealistic simply because you do not allow of common element which can very easily derail or overcome a persons goals or objectives. ARmed conflcits are not skills in a bubble to be politely measured. Better men have been defeated by lesser men in battles throughout history, its not simply about who has attended jedi tactics 101 and who as not or which adversary/combatant has the most ammo. Its just not as simple as all that

Realistically speaking, I consider the statistical and historical data regarding armed self defense actions to be a intellectually honest and fair baseline. It doesn't mean that my fight will fall into the statistical norm, it may not. I do not make plans around the bare minimum but accept that some people might. I will typically make plans which are intended to mitigate the type and style of problem that falls somewhere in the middle of the universally accepted scale. To use an arbitrary number,.. if 3 is consider to be the most common number of rounds fired and 13 is considered to be the most common number at the other end of the scale, I will probably make a plan utilizing 6 or 8 rounds. I will carry a reload just in case my first mag craps out and as a bonus ( just in case). Personally, I consider it extremely unlikely that I will reload anything or transition to some other weapon. I feel that whatever I brung.. that's what I will run and the winner will probably be determined well before anyone runs dry.

If someone wants to carry a 5 shot j-frame for self defense, I would be inclined to believe ( based on historical data), that it will "probably" be adequate in "most" lawful self defense actions. My G43 that I carry in the summer really isn't much more gun that that and as I said previously, the idea of a running gun battle with mag changes and all that jazz is probably more fiction than non. Even so, an extra mag doesn't cost or eat much so I do carry one just in case of malfunction. Its cheap insurance.
 
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