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My wife's friend's husband Jay was doing some yard work in our quiet suburb and heard a car racing around the neighborhood, squealing tires revving high speeds. After a while he saw the car speed past his house. It came by again but was going slower, slower still being about 15 mph over the limit. He did the 2 handed motion for "Slow Down". The car came by again and parked and then the occupants, (teens), pretended to walk up to a neighbors house. When about 15 feet from Jay and 15 feet from Jay's neighbors door the teens sprinted towards Jay and beat the heck out of him. He ended up in the hospital for 3 days.

This freaks me out because a few times in the past I have motioned for cars to slow down in our neighborhood. I usually don't carry while doing yard work but maybe I should. And also maybe I should pick my battles and just call the police when teens speed around the neighborhood.

So the scenario is: What does a person do with teens acting reckless in the neighborhood?
 

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Yep, let the law handle it.

On a side note, did they catch the two punks who did it?
 

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Jay should have been armed.:yup:
A group of teens carrying out an attack is definitely a time one would/could be fearful for his life...I'm just sayin'...:ziplip:

I have yelled for a few cars to "Slow down, we have lots of young kids playing around here."
If a car of young thugs stopped a few houses down and rushed me...they would be met with enough force to...
1.) Stop the attack and make a decision to leave
2.) Stop the attack...:boese51::comeandgetsome:

Using force is not something I want to do, but neither do I expect to be beaten to a pulp on my own property...or worse, have them follow me into the house...I'm too old to be in a race for the front door.
 

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As soon as those guys stopped the car, my hand is going to be close to my gun. If I don't have it, I'm going in the house tuit de suite and calling the cops...

And a group of hoodlums is not getting within 15 feet of me in that circumstance... he should have been making some space...
 

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We used to have cars race down our street all the time, then my wife grabbed the shotgun stood in the middle of the street on the phone with 911. Man did they slow down. When the cops got there she sent them to the kids house up the road. Never had a problem again. Couldn't believe my my wife did that.:buttkick:
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Yep, let the law handle it.

On a side note, did they catch the two punks who did it?
I'm not sure. The friend of my wifes hasn't been to social with us since I didn't want my daughter to go with them to vacation bible school.

I think the worst part of the whole ordeal was that his daughters, ages 5 to 10 saw the whole thing happen from the living room windows, how traumatizing.
 

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I guess it's just their world and we are lucky enough to live in it? Man that kind of stuff ticks me off. If there are multiple assailants you get into disparity of force, and that is reason to defend yourself. I've started carrying more around the house. At least pepper spray, but lately I've got my KT p3at in my front pocket more. Figure it can help stop the attack or get me headed towards something better. I had it with me while I was out playing in the snow with the girls today.
 

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It just shows how a simple gesture can get you in deep. Look at the road rage that starts with gestures, of course some of them are obscene but people are willing to do stupid things over a mere hand signal.
 

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We spend most of our time on our place. When in the house or outside, I always have a pistol. If I am in the woods working, I take a shotgun. I am too old to run and the dog is warning system size, not protective size. Never screw with the elderly, our escape options are limited so you are more likely to get shot than to see our heels.
 

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I would have 911ed them right away - too many kids and people walking dogs in my neighborhood for jerks to play Indy 500. And had they tried to attack me, my four-legged associate would have eaten them alive.
 

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I will never understand why people with carry permits,leave their guns in the house while outside doing yard work etc.You can be attacked and robbed anywhere,yet people still think it won't happen at home
 

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The first time you noticed the speeding was the time to call LE. Hopefully they would have arrived in time to head things off.

Everyone makes their own choice and lives with the consequences, but for me being continuously armed provides another option for dealing with an unexpected encounter should it go south.
 

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Hey y'all: Sounds like there are 2 pieces to this puzzle/discussion. They are recklessly driving--you yell at them and then call the law. They stop and get out of the car, you yell loudly not to come on your property, police have been called, and they should remember you have the means and will to protect yourself and your property. They rush you on your property--you have to be crazy not to believe that they intend bodily harm--you present your firearm and if that does not stop them right away you shoot them.
 

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OK, I agree with the disparity-of-force thing and the on-your-own-property part. But to what extent did his gesture contribute? I'm thinking of the principle I've heard that the defender had better have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to contribute to the altercation, or it would go much worse for him at trial.

I guess that calling 911 is the action to take, and perhaps get a license plate number: I would also think that a homeowner jotting down a license plate or staring at the car while on a cell phone would send a similar message as a 'slow down' gesture, too, and would be seen by a jury as necessary and productive rather than inflammatory.

And I customarily carry a weapon and a cell phone when doing yard work, though (truth be told) my reason is more for being able to shoot at a crazed cow or call my wife if I were to slip and hurt myself.
 

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Ya get what ya ask for - confrontation

Well, he asked for it. Too bad he didn't have a plan past giving them hand signals and thinking they were jolly good fellows who would appreciate being reminded they were acting dangerously. Don't make yourself a target by your actions. Defending is one thing playing cop is another.

I get the occasional speeder and I can hear them before they get to my part of the street. I do go out to take a look at the car - They may be running away from something they just did, like stealing or mayhem, so I want to be able to ID the car. I have security recordings to help. I have never seen a multiple pass and that would surely lead to me calling 911. We have many kids on this street.

While I am more often armed than not I would not feel OK with giving them any kind of hand signals. There are too many young and dumb punks that may want to do just what happened here and even if they didn't they now know where I live! Since all the intel favors them I don't go looking to start anything. Coming back at 2am and spraying my house or setting it on fire while I sleep is too easy.

Besides, if it is found that your actions escalated the incident you will not ever get a "good shoot" finding by the authorities. Give hand signals and you just dis-qualified your use of the gun - even while standing in your own yard. Talking 'bout Texas rules here, ymmv where you live.

That said, around these parts one does not need a permit to carry open or concealed on their own property so saying one should carry around their property if they have a permit gives non-permitted people the idea they need one first. Plain ol' "One should carry when on their property" would be more helpful.

Nowhere in that story does he say the guy had a permit - wouldn't be surprised if he didn't own a gun at all. Being a bible camp kinda guy he probably often tries to inject himself in the wrongs he sees being done. In the light of him being an un-armed "enforcer" he looks even stupider trying to play street cop with punks who are already showing they flout the law and sensibilities.

Some peoples education come at a higher price than needed. This can serve as school for us.
 

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I will never understand why people with carry permits,leave their guns in the house while outside doing yard work etc.You can be attacked and robbed anywhere,yet people still think it won't happen at home
Since you're from Texas you oughta know a permit is not needed while you do your yardwork armed. Open or concealed - permit, no permit - you're good to go.

P.S. I get a grin from your sig line everytime I read it.
 

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Well, he asked for it.

In the light of him being an un-armed "enforcer" he looks even stupider trying to play street cop with punks who are already showing they flout the law and sensibilities.
BS!

Telling stupid kids to slow down is not 'asking for it.'

We can question his wisdom given that we live in a world with road rage and other acts of lunacy and violence. But, this is not inciting anything.

Absolutely, they were punks. Maybe he should have anticipated it and had a better plan than to be a punching bag. But, he did not cause this, nor ask for it.
 

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BS!

Telling stupid kids to slow down is not 'asking for it.'

We can question his wisdom given that we live in a world with road rage and other acts of lunacy and violence. But, this is not inciting anything.

Absolutely, they were punks. Maybe he should have anticipated it and had a better plan than to be a punching bag. But, he did not cause this, nor ask for it.
He gave confrontation - he got confrontation in return. What part of that is not clear? Didn't say he "incited" it - they were "excited" already and he stepped into it.

They were not in the midst of committing a felony. He was unwise to think they would take it nicely and start being safe drivers afterwards.

His action clearly escalated it from witnessing to involved. His action led to them stopping. Undeniably the truth. A lawyer prosecuting you for shooting them would ride that all the way to your jail cell.

Talking about when we are armed we have a responsibilty to not escalate things - he did - armed or not. They weren't targeting him before that moment. He asked for their personal attention and got it. If you feel comfortable enough to escalate things and explain it to a judge and jury as an OK thing then by all means go ahead. I will still think that is stupid but that's only my opinion. And yes, when you confront people you are asking for their attention - the attention of someone who doesn't give a flying flip about rules of decency anyways. Wise? Not in my book. Go ahead and play cop all you want. I'll read about your adventures in the news. We'll see what is really BS at that time. I suppose if you were this guy we'd be reading about three dead punks and you in jail. That is true BS.

This is a situation that only called for being a witness and alerting the authorities around here.

Bet it's always interesting when you're involved.

You come across as someone who is a fight looking for a place to happen.
 

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Holy Cow Commonman101, I suppose you don't ever use your horn when driving because it might offend someone as well. That is just nuts, about the nicest way I can put it.

As far as the guy who was doing yard work. He didn't have gun, but what about what he was working with. Didn't he have a rake, a shovel, and weed eater, or anything else he could have used as a weapon against these punks. Heck a push mower can even be swung around if you so desire.

A 911 call would have been in order with the vehicle description and license plate, but I have no problem letting folks know when they are doing something in my neighborhood that is wrong. If they choose to come back by and do something more stupid, more power to them.

BTW, folks from Texas really need to learn what our laws are. If for some reason you think you would be in violation of the law by defending yourself from attackers on your own property when you have only made jestures to have them slow their vehicle down, you really need to learn what Texas laws are. This guy would have been justified in the use of force from this attack regardless of what his actions were prior to them entering his private property.
 
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