Defensive Carry banner
41 - 60 of 108 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,507 Posts
Then restitution and having to replace things that weren't recovered makes more logical sense than the argument you are making.

Even if the stuff isn't recovered and the perp gets away, the time and money used to buy stuff that is being stolen is not the equivalent to taking someones life. Time spent working to pay for stuff is still time spent living, breathing, learning, etc. It's also not worth the risk of firing shots that could potentially hit people or damage other's property while attempting to protect stuff. It's all around a bad idea and concept that will only fly in 3rd world and communists countries.
Well, it flys in Communist countries because the government recognizes the need to protect the property that it has stolen. For some reason, in the "free world" property can't be equated with life. Yet if you had all of your property removed, what now is your status in the world? Beggar? And it's bad enough if that's what you earned through your behavior. But to be thrust there because someone else thought that they deserved to have your stuff more than you?
Seriously?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
38,334 Posts
You should be able to.

It is quite simple, cars and many other items are very expensive and represent a huge part of ones time.

Time is life. When you steal from me, you are taking my life.
If it's that important to you, turn it off and lock it when you leave it unattended. Failing that, how important can it really be to you?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
I disagree. I think that our legal system has evolved into a monster that is more interested in consolidating power than it is in enforcing justice.
No, you should not kill unless you have to. But the act of robbery is an initiation of force against you.
Well of course.
But if you work for what you own, then that is time of your life that you have traded in order to get it. Someone taking it without having earned it from you, is a theft of part of your life that you can never get back. Sure, you can get the things back, but not without extra effort on your part. If you think that someone else's life is worth that part, then so be it. But you have no right to tell someone else that they MUST do the same.
When I make significant purchases, I'm disciplined and buy under market value. When I go to sell, or need to file an insurance claim, I will either make money or break even.
Here you go, countries with the death penalty for theft: Afghanistan, Algeria, Cameroon, China, Iran, Saudi Arab, Iraq, and North Korea.
What's your point, exactly? The United States dominates most of those countries in certain crime stats. A majority of a Nation's policies failing isn't necessarily reason to ignore their policies that are effective. Swift & extreme penalties are highly effective deterrent against criminality, and soft penalties encourage it. If you were to leave your wallet on a crowded public park bench in Saudi, it would still be there the next day.

Concealed carriers should not be slinging rounds in the street to resist auto theft, however if the penalty for grand theft auto was an immediate state-sponsored death, there would instantly be a significant reduction in that crime rate by virtue of eliminating repeat offenders alone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,507 Posts
When I make significant purchases, I'm disciplined and buy under market value. When I go to sell, or need to file an insurance claim, I will either make money or break even.


What's your point, exactly? The United States dominates most of those countries in certain crime stats. A majority of a Nation's policies failing isn't necessarily reason to ignore their policies that are effective. Swift & extreme penalties are highly effective deterrent against criminality, and soft penalties encourage it. If you were to leave your wallet on a crowded public park bench in Saudi, it would still be there the next day.

Concealed carriers should not be slinging rounds in the street to resist auto theft, however if the penalty for grand theft auto was an immediate state-sponsored death, there would instantly be a significant reduction in that crime rate by virtue of eliminating repeat offenders alone.
Nobody should have to be slinging rounds anywhere to stop any sort of theft. But then, that's not here, that's in my paradisiccal version of it. What if you depend on your car to be able to make a living for yourself and your family?
But hey, sacrifice. The more you suffer the more it shows you really care.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
673 Posts
Well, it flys in Communist countries because the government recognizes the need to protect the property that it has stolen. For some reason, in the "free world" property can't be equated with life. Yet if you had all of your property removed, what now is your status in the world? Beggar? And it's bad enough if that's what you earned through your behavior. But to be thrust there because someone else thought that they deserved to have your stuff more than you?
Seriously?
I think it flies there and not in more civilized countries is because we are more evolved, we value life, and we value civil rights more than they do. There's a reason why people on the left and right who always brag how much better something is in another country would never actually move there.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
38,334 Posts
What's your point, exactly? The United States dominates most of those countries in certain crime stats. A majority of a Nation's policies failing isn't necessarily reason to ignore their policies that are effective. Swift & extreme penalties are highly effective deterrent against criminality, and soft penalties encourage it. If you were to leave your wallet on a crowded public park bench in Saudi, it would still be there the next day.
Someone advocated for enacting the death penalty for theft, and I mentioned countries where that penalty currently exists.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,083 Posts
The article's author wrote "...Thieves use the blistering cold weather to their advantage..." Maybe it's just an Arizona thing, but even when I got frostbite there weren't any blisters involved.
I've actually had a blister from cold. I was a kid, doing stupid kid things, and another kid doing stupid kid things with me took a CO2 fire extinguisher and sprayed into a corner to build up dry ice snow. I decided grab some of the snow with my bare hands and froze my finger tip, which resulted in a blister.

So, if it is snowing dry ice in Arizona, don't make snowballs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,742 Posts
Someone advocated for enacting the death penalty for theft, and I mentioned countries where that penalty currently exists.
Not just on this thread, but on some other current ones, I'm seeing a trend of "death wish" posts. Either defenders should always shoot thieves to death, or the state should catch them and execute them. Not sure what that's all about, but I'm not down with it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,549 Posts
Especially if you are refueling.

Unless you're in Texas. Unless things there have changed.
There are a few exceptions here in Texas.
 
  • Like
Reactions: StripesDude

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,972 Posts
Legal or not, I would hope that I wouldn't shoot if I was pumping gas and they jumped in it and drove away. Would not want to have to deal with the aftermath. My car wouldn't be worth it.

If I'm inside of it, different story.

Edit: one exception to the outside scenario would be if I had someone inside the car. That would certainly make a difference!

The gas cap on my wife's car is on the passenger side. I hate that. I don't like being on the opposite side from the driver's door. The simple solution is to lock it, though.
Two rules to ALWAYS follow with your vehicle in public places. NEVER leave your keys in your vehicle. NEVER leave your engine running when outside of the vehicle or away from it. That said..

Carjacking most always is accompanied by the threat of or actual use of force, i.e. weapon, disparity of force, etc. It is also very common to include kidnapping, as well. This changes things a bit and can justify the use of deadly force. If I am pumping gas and someone jumps in one of my vehicles, he has a real problem from the get go. The engine ain't gonna be running and there are no keys in the ignition (my truck uses an actual key but my and my wife's car are keyless - the fob stays in my pocket). So then if the guy jumps back out and demands my "key", it becomes a robbery which most definitely justifies a deadly force response.

If I am approaching one of my vehicles in a parking lot (I tend to park at the fringe spots to protect my doors) and someone manages to steal my vehicle, I am not about to open fire, unless fired upon, since the law would not be on my side in that case. Of our three vehicles, my personal driving machine is irreplaceable.

Now reality. Frankly I cannot say with absolute certainty what I would do during a robbery, and this is assuming I had the opportunity to get my sidearm into the fray. Never been in this sort of situation so I don't have any experience to fall back on and use to help me. So I would have to continue to do what I do in most cases. Play "what if" scenarios in my mind as a pre-conditioning factor so that if something like this actually goes down, I will have already taken some sort of decision as to my actions and responses. But I would not only be a fool but a rather ignorant fool to just blatantly spout off what I would do to those "punks" if they tried to rob me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RScottie

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
38,334 Posts
Not just on this thread, but on some other current ones, I'm seeing a trend of "death wish" posts. Either defenders should always shoot thieves to death, or the state should catch them and execute them. Not sure what that's all about, but I'm not down with it.
There are always outliers, regardless of venue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,507 Posts
I think it flies there and not in more civilized countries is because we are more evolved, we value life, and we value civil rights more than they do. There's a reason why people on the left and right who always brag how much better something is in another country would never actually move there.
I'm of the mind that if you value the life of the thief equally to the life of the thief's victims, you are making a mistake.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Discussion Starter · #54 ·
I'm of the mind that if you value the life of the thief equally to the life of the thief's victims, you are making a mistake.
Western society ethic (I'm not a lawyer, so I can't say about US law) holds that all lives are equally valuable.

IMO, that is how it should be.

Stealing an unoccupied car is not a life-forfeiting crime. Not in the USA. Not in Western society in general.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,972 Posts
Western society ethic (I'm not a lawyer, so I can't say about US law) holds that all lives are equally valuable.

IMO, that is how it should be.

Stealing an unoccupied car is not a life-forfeiting crime. Not in the USA. Not in Western society in general.
Does that also go for someone who rapes and murders your wife or daughter? Not trying to start something but rather trying to clarify the mistake of believing that all lives are equally valuable. Some lives are worth more than others and some are worth next to nothing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,507 Posts
Western society ethic (I'm not a lawyer, so I can't say about US law) holds that all lives are equally valuable.

IMO, that is how it should be.

Stealing an unoccupied car is not a life-forfeiting crime. Not in the USA. Not in Western society in general.
Western society ethic has many flaws, and this is one of them.
All lives may start with the potential to be equally valuable. But that value depends upon how the individual lives their life.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Discussion Starter · #57 ·
Does that also go for someone who rapes and murders your wife or daughter? Not trying to start something but rather trying to clarify the mistake of believing that all lives are equally valuable. Some lives are worth more than others and some are worth next to nothing.
Silly question. Stealing an unoccupied car (or anything else, for that matter) is not self defense. Defense of others is not what I was talking about, and was not what the guy in Kenosha was doing either.

Again, theft is not a crime where the perp forfeits his life.
 
41 - 60 of 108 Posts
Top