Carry on plane.
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Yeah I do. One terrorist with a plastic knife can kill 300 people.
On CC Citizen with a .45 200 gr can save 299 lives.
The plane will not explode like the movies when a round goes through the fuselage. Im sure military aircraft would fall out of the sky if they really blew up. But they come home with missing wings and still live to fight another fight.
On CC Citizen with a .45 200 gr can save 299 lives.
The plane will not explode like the movies when a round goes through the fuselage. Im sure military aircraft would fall out of the sky if they really blew up. But they come home with missing wings and still live to fight another fight.
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1,298 Posts
That may have been true at one time, but is no longer the case (and hasn't been since 9/11), the terrorists also know this, which is why they haven't hi-jacked a plane with a box-cutter since.
Personally I have no problem with not being able to CC on a commercial flight, my gun isn't my only means of self-defense, nor is it my first means of self-defense and you're more likely going to have to deal with an unruly/drunk passenger, then you are a terrorist.
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763 Posts
In a lot of respects, you are correct. However, I would argue that if carrying a firearm is your only means of self defense, there's a lot out there you're missing. (I use "you" in the collective).
The wings aren't pressurized, just the cockpit and the pilot is already wearing a helmet/mask. Airliners have a mask in the cockpit, but they have to get it out and put it on.
Personally, I don't think average Joe should be able to CC on a plane due to comparing the risk/reward, plus there are lots of other options for defense/offense.
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2,652 Posts
I have no problems with no firearms on an aircraft. I have known some people that shouldn't be anywhere near a gun and yet they have a permit. It wasn't too long ago when a commercial pilot accidentally fired off a round in the cockpit. Can you imagine some drunk passenger fooling around with a gun, or someone who decides to make a fashion statement while committing suicide?
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405 Posts
The same arguments some of y'all are making for not carrying on a plane can be applied to city buses, trains, restaurants, schools, etc.
If a CC holder wouldn't drink while carrying on the ground, why would he drink while traveling on an airliner? If a CC holder is responsible enough to make decisions in a crowded mall, why not an airplane?
And I agree with the above poster that said I'm "more likely" to deal with unruly or drunk people than real a real threat while on an airliner. But that also applies to everyday life and we still carry.
I'm an airline pilot and have mixed feelings. I like the idea of pilots being armed, and possibly some attendants. However, it's very cramped in the back. Close-quarter combat and handgun training is tough. Lots to work out, but I'm not necessarily opposed to handguns in the back.
If a shot goes off in the back, we're descending and landing. The fact that a round through the fuselage would depressurize the cabin is largely irrelevant since we're descending anyway (below 10K nobody needs supplemental O2). The plane would not desintegrate, nor would anyone get sucked out of a bullet hole.
If a CC holder wouldn't drink while carrying on the ground, why would he drink while traveling on an airliner? If a CC holder is responsible enough to make decisions in a crowded mall, why not an airplane?
And I agree with the above poster that said I'm "more likely" to deal with unruly or drunk people than real a real threat while on an airliner. But that also applies to everyday life and we still carry.
I'm an airline pilot and have mixed feelings. I like the idea of pilots being armed, and possibly some attendants. However, it's very cramped in the back. Close-quarter combat and handgun training is tough. Lots to work out, but I'm not necessarily opposed to handguns in the back.
If a shot goes off in the back, we're descending and landing. The fact that a round through the fuselage would depressurize the cabin is largely irrelevant since we're descending anyway (below 10K nobody needs supplemental O2). The plane would not desintegrate, nor would anyone get sucked out of a bullet hole.
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3,232 Posts
Holger, are you an FFDO? Do you know about the program? I am/was a pilot as well. Not commercial, but I have many friends who are airline pilots, several of which are FFDOs.
To the OP:
I'm OK with the current laws about carry on a plane. There are plenty of people who CAN and do carry on planes. Any/nearly any federal agent can carry on planes, not just Air Marshals.
Also, as someone already stated, people don't put up with crap on planes anymore. Someone acts a little crazy, people subdue them. I've seen it happen.
To the OP:
I'm OK with the current laws about carry on a plane. There are plenty of people who CAN and do carry on planes. Any/nearly any federal agent can carry on planes, not just Air Marshals.
Also, as someone already stated, people don't put up with crap on planes anymore. Someone acts a little crazy, people subdue them. I've seen it happen.
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236 Posts
I do and I am a pilot. I carried years ago and some of my passengers did. We we not Part 121 airlines, and the rules we operated under only said that passengers could not be armed unless the "operator" [that was me] approved.
There is nothing of significant value above the floor of a Boeing airliner that would be damaged or cause serious flight or environmental problems.
You may remember Aloha Airlines Flight 243
Obviously, this airplane lost cabin pressure, but a few hundred bullet holes would not have caused depressurization, the outflow valves would have just closed a little.
Considering that planes are private property, they shouldn't be regulated by the government. The operators/owners of planes should be able to decide what they think is best for their planes and their customers. People could choose to fly airlines that allowed licensed carry, or forbade weapons, or only allowed pilots to carry or whatever variant they thought best. Imagine that, let people decide what they think is best for themselves.
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405 Posts
I'm not...yet. I just haven't gotten around to going through the course. I work for a big cargo op, and I don't think it's quite as important to have armed pilots on our jets as it is on the passenger carriers. I'm also on a military leave of absence right now. I have every intention of going through the FFDO process once I go back to airline flying (if the program is still around).
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935 Posts
I see no reason that you shouldn’t be armed while flying and all through the airport, if you are afraid of wild shots take a look at the law enforcement and they can fly armed. The fact is if the people on the 911 flights were armed it would have never happened, it wouldn’t even have been considered.
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5,142 Posts
Back in the day it was legal to fly and carry and how many aircraft were brought down then? I see no problem with carrying on Airlines. And give me my fingernail clippers back.
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Sounds a lot like capitalism. Do we still allow that here? [/SARCASM]
An armed society is a polite society, even at 35k feet.
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When there is a potential for that plane to be intentionally flown into a building that I (or someone I care about) might be standing in, I think a little oversight is not out of the question.
I'm perfectly OK with leaving my weapon behind if:
1. All persons entering the location are screened for weapons
2. Access is physically restricted to prevent circumventing the screening
3. There are security personnel nearby at all times once in the secure area
Airplanes might not precisely meet that criteria, but they are the closest I have seen yet.
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1,458 Posts
I'm ok with it
The biggest problem I can think of with shooting on a plane is that you are in a very narrow tube with lots of innocents between and behind any terrorist. Having people start opening up could hit a lot of unintended targets. Granted, if you do nothing they might die anyway, but if the pilots are armed and know not to open the cockpit for a terrorist under any circumstances, hijacking shouldn't be a problem.
The biggest problem I can think of with shooting on a plane is that you are in a very narrow tube with lots of innocents between and behind any terrorist. Having people start opening up could hit a lot of unintended targets. Granted, if you do nothing they might die anyway, but if the pilots are armed and know not to open the cockpit for a terrorist under any circumstances, hijacking shouldn't be a problem.
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