[MJB_17]

Out of curiosity, has anyone here been in a CC licensing class where they have seen someone fail either a classroom test or a shooting qualification? Personally, the answer is yes. There was a husband/wife pair in mine who were in their early 60s, both able bodied, the husband was OK but his wife was downright scary. Before the range portion, the instructor had the new shooters practice grip and stance with blue guns. Her standard MO was to put her finger right on the trigger and use it like a laser pointer. The worst part? They both had Glocks...

Fast forward to the range, everyone else in the class is shooting fine (the test is stupid easy) except her. She can't rack the slide at all and is missing the silhouette at 7 yards (seriously). The instructor pulled her off the line for safety reasons, I don't know the final result, but there are some people who need to stop at pepper spray.

Has anyone experienced something similar?

 

[ItalianSteel]

Me and my brother haven't seen anything like that in either one of our CC classes. Most people here seemed to be 'shy' and qualify with a .22LR or 9mm. Since here in NC your permit is not tied to your qualifying weapon, it's easiest to qualify with a smaller caliber. I doubt these ladies are going to qualify with a .22LR only to carry a .40 or .45 gun, so I don't worry (though I do hope they train with what they plan on carrying eventually). The people I worry about the most are the guys who bring in a 1911 and grin as they rapid-fire .45 ACP down range (no grouping whatsoever). To me those guys come across as "a solution looking for a problem."

 

[manolito]

My wifes class didn't pass two students an all female class but offered free instruction to the two until they passed. It appeared to be a confidence thing not an ability thing.

Wife use to hold a gun like it was going to bite and it took time and practice for her to gain confidence. She was never unsafe nor were the two that failed to pass. Just not confident enough.

 

[msuman]

Glad I live in a state where you just have to do some paperwork to get your permit.

 

[Ndpuckhead]

Glad I live in a state where you just have to do some paperwork to get your permit.

Not me! I have no problems with having to be at least minimally qualified to carry a gun around in public.

 

[plode]

I had to take an NRA pistol course for the FL CCW. I brought my Browning Buckmark .22 for the live fire portion because of the ammo frenzy- I couldn't find any 9mm for my Glock.

There was a girl there who couldn't hit the target with a 9mm from 3 yards...we weren't using silhouettes, rather about 1ft x 1ft splatter targets. She passed the course after they worked with her for a couple hours on the range.

 

[archer51]

Not me! I have no problems with having to be at least minimally qualified to carry a gun around in public.

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Alright, I realize my eyes aren't as good as they used to be, but where in there does it say "Upon successful completion of a state approved course"?

 

[Ndpuckhead]

Alright, I realize my eyes aren't as good as they used to be, but where in there does it say "Upon successful completion of a state approved course"?

Do you think it would be OK if the woman mentioned in the OP's post got her permit, had to use her gun in defense, and instead of hitting the BG she shot an innocent bystander or herself? Would you give the keys to your car to someone that has never driven and send them is city traffic? I don't think its too much to ask for someone to have some qualifications to carry a concealed pistol.

 

[zen1300]

Do you think it would be OK if the woman mentioned in the OP's post got her permit, had to use her gun in defense, and instead of hitting the BG she shot an innocent bystander or herself? Would you give the keys to your car to someone that has never driven and send them is city traffic? I don't think its too much to ask for someone to have some qualifications to carry a concealed pistol.

Agreed. It is a risk.

Those of use with skill and comfortable will complain about increased requirements. We'd also be the first to yell, "who the hell have her a permit," if she shot us or another bystander in a confrontation.

Carrying a weapon is a responsibility with potentially grave results.

Note that she doesn't lose her right to bear arms, but requires more training to do so in a concealed manner... For her safety and ours.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[DBS]

Really no such thing as failure in VA. No qualification necessary. You can get a CHL without ever having held a gun before in your life. Hell, you can even take the class over the internet.

 

[Miketrance]

I believe a class shouldn't be a requirement. The problem is people are too irresponsible to make sure they are competent on their own to handle a firearm. All my friends can shoot well, we all grew up with guns and are hunters. But I can't even count how many times I've seen people really unsafe with weapons. I seen a guy brake his collarbone at a shooting range because he didn't properly shoulder his rifle. I was 18 at the time, and I told him hey you might want to hold that tight into your shoulder. I got shut up kid as a response. A couple rounds later, I heard him cry out and he stood up with his limp arm in pain.

I've seen guys shoot the walls, and ceilings of indoor ranges as well. These people didn't seek out proper instruction and put everyone's life in danger.

 

[Ndpuckhead]

I believe a class shouldn't be a requirement.

I've seen guys shoot the walls, and ceilings of indoor ranges as well. These people didn't seek out proper instruction and put everyone's life in danger.

That's exactly why there SHOULD be a class. It's for our benefit as CPL holders as well. If one of these irresponsible people use their weapon and shoot bystanders, it only harms the rest of us who carry responsibly.

 

[Manderinobyebye]

A friend of mine's husband teaches the class.Some of them,have never shot a gun.A couple of those,didn't have anyone,to show,or,teach them how.
His wife,told me,he tells the class,i'm not here to fail you,i'm here to help you pass.
I'm guessing,he has run across one or two,he has had to give a little extra help.

 

[StripesDude]

At mine, no one failed, but there was a tense situation. In my opinion, Texas has some loose rules when it comes to the range qualification part, and they might as well just kill the shooting test. Everyone in my class scored perfect (and didn't have to shoot from 7yds), including the woman in my story below.

A couple showed up, clearly out of their element. The husband had a Glock (just picked it up from Academy), but the wife had no gun of her own. The instructor had two guns with him and lent her his Glock. After 10 min of instruction from the instructor, the wife racked the slide and proceeded to wave the gun around. Unfortunately for me, she was in the lane right next to where I was set up. I immediately grabbed her hands and strongly planted them on the bench, while glaring at her husband, and saying "NEVER point the muzzle anywhere but down range." The husband looked mortified and thanked me. As mentioned before, they both shot perfect scores.

 

[Miketrance]

That's exactly why there SHOULD be a class. It's for our benefit as CPL holders as well. If one of these irresponsible people use their weapon and shoot bystanders, it only harms the rest of us who carry responsibly.

I like how you quote my first sentence, and leave out the very next one where I say there's a problem with my first sentence because people can't be trusted to handle a firearm safely. My entire post is basically saying how I like the idea of no classes, but it there's problems with it because people don't see proper instruction unless made to. It looks like you completely missed the point of my post.

 

[Smitty901]

Give me 20 minutes I will type out a mandated course no one can pass. Then no more CC.

 

[Qtip]

That's exactly why there SHOULD be a class. It's for our benefit as CPL holders as well. If one of these irresponsible people use their weapon and shoot bystanders, it only harms the rest of us who carry responsibly.

Your argument falls through when you look at the 25+ states that allow some form of carry with no permit at all and see that there are very few, if any, problems.

How about actually doing some research on ND/stupidity rates among legal carries in states that require a class vs states that don't? It will yield much more fruitful results than pulling made-up scenarios out of the air.

 

[Ndpuckhead]

I like how you quote my first sentence, and leave out the very next one where I say there's a problem with my first sentence because people can't be trusted to handle a firearm safely. My entire post is basically saying how I like the idea of no classes, but it there's problems with it because people don't see proper instruction unless made to. It looks like you completely missed the point of my post.

Apparently I did, sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[gasmitty]

Out of curiosity, has anyone here been in a CC licensing class where they have seen someone fail either a classroom test or a shooting qualification? Personally, the answer is yes. There was a husband/wife pair in mine who were in their early 60s, both able bodied, the husband was OK but his wife was downright scary. Before the range portion, the instructor had the new shooters practice grip and stance with blue guns. Her standard MO was to put her finger right on the trigger and use it like a laser pointer. The worst part? They both had Glocks...

Fast forward to the range, everyone else in the class is shooting fine (the test is stupid easy) except her. She can't rack the slide at all and is missing the silhouette at 7 yards (seriously). The instructor pulled her off the line for safety reasons, I don't know the final result, but there are some people who need to stop at pepper spray.

Has anyone experienced something similar?

Yes. In all fairness, one class was Ayoob's LFI-1, so it wasn't required for a CCW, only to pass the course. In this one, the shooter was about 5' tall and nearly as wide, tiny hands, and the gun was a 2" 686 with full-size stocks. She ended up qualifying with my Taurus 85 with which she could at least achieve a good grip.

Case 2 was in my AZ CCW class 10 years ago. Middle-aged couple and the wife had a .38 J-frame and couldn't keep more than half her shots on the silhouette target at 10 yards. She finished the qual with a K-frame .22 and did much better.

The common denominator in both cases was a husband selecting a gun for the wife based on his idea of what she needed. We all know how poorly that works, right?

 

[Old_Dog]

I ran a training company for two years and some of our courses were for handling dangerous materials and required passing a test for certification. No one ever failed. If you start failing people it kills your business in one of two ways. Either you get a reputation for being tough and everyone will choose another company to train them or they will look at you as not being good enough teachers since people are failing. Most test these days are open book anyway and the courses are basically designed to pass the test.