Defensive Carry banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
159 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This weekend I will be judging a contest at a local high school in Alabama. What I have read about Alabama law indicates it is legal for me to carry on school property as long as I have a valid handgun permit.

However, isn't there a Federal Law against CCW on school property?
Which supercedes, Fed or State?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
Don't think you can carry on school property in Alabama. Not intirely sure, but I don't think you can.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,598 Posts
FEDERAL LAW RULES...ALWAYS. I also don't think Alabama state law permits carrying on any state property. For example, students at The University of Alabama's various campuses are forbidden to CCW. When I graduated from BAMA it was different, but we still couldn't have firearms in the dorms. These days all CCW at Bama is forbidden. That's going to suck when I go up for the ROTC reunion and Homecoming next year.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
24,738 Posts
Here's a piece I "borrowed" from PDO:

Places off-limits while carrying in Alabama


Date updated: Aug 21, 2005 @ 10:13 am

Section 13A-11-72

Premises of a public school. The term "public school" as used in this section applies only to a school composed of grades K-12 and shall include a school bus used for grades K-12

(c) Subject to the exceptions provided by Section 13A-11-74, no person shall knowingly with intent to do bodily harm carry or possess a deadly weapon on the premises of a public school.

(d) Possession of a deadly weapon with the intent to do bodily harm on the premises of a public school in violation of subsection (c) of this section is a Class C felony.

(e) Law enforcement officers are exempt from this section, and persons with pistol permits issued pursuant to Section 13A-11-75, are exempt from the provisions of subsection (c) of this section.

Section 13A-11-59

(b) It shall be unlawful for any person, other than a law enforcement officer, to have in his or her possession or on his or her person or in any vehicle any firearm while participating in or attending any demonstration being held at a public place.

Section 13A-11-59

(c) It shall be unlawful for any person, other than a law enforcement officer as defined in subsection (a) of this section, to have in his or her possession or about his or her person or in any vehicle at a point within 1,000 feet of a demonstration at a public place, any firearm after having first been advised by a law enforcement officer that a demonstration was taking place at a public place and after having been ordered by such officer to remove himself or herself from the prescribed area until such time as he or she no longer was in possession of any firearm.

It appears the answer is NO.

Good luck, Judge! :wave:

Welcome to CC!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
159 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
"(e) Law enforcement officers are exempt from this section, and persons with pistol permits issued pursuant to Section 13A-11-75, are exempt from the provisions of subsection (c) of this section."

Doesn't the above imply one "can" carry on school grounds as long as they have a permit?


Since I'm still unsure, I'll probably leave weapon at home.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
24,738 Posts
Section 13A-11-72
Certain persons forbidden to possess pistol.

(a) No person who has been convicted in this state or elsewhere of committing or attempting to commit a crime of violence shall own a pistol or have one in his or her possession or under his or her control.

(b) No person who is a drug addict or an habitual drunkard shall own a pistol or have one in his or her possession or under his or her control.

(c) Subject to the exceptions provided by Section 13A-11-74, no person shall knowingly with intent to do bodily harm carry or possess a deadly weapon on the premises of a public school.

(d) Possession of a deadly weapon with the intent to do bodily harm on the premises of a public school in violation of subsection (c) of this section is a Class C felony.

(e)
Law enforcement officers are exempt from this section, and persons with pistol permits issued pursuant to Section 13A-11-75, are exempt from the provisions of subsection (c) of this section.

(f) The term "public school" as used in this section applies only to a school composed of grades K-12 and shall include a school bus used for grades K-12.

(g) The term "deadly weapon" as used in this section means a firearm or anything manifestly designed, made, or adapted for the purposes of inflicting death or serious physical injury, and such term includes, but is not limited to, a bazooka, hand grenade, missile, or explosive or incendiary device; a pistol, rifle, or shotgun; or a switch-blade knife, gravity knife, stiletto, sword, or dagger; or any club, baton, billy, black-jack, bludgeon, or metal knuckles.
(Acts 1936, Ex. Sess., No. 82, p. 51; Code 1940, T. 14, §174; Acts 1951, No. 784, p. 1378; Code 1975, §13-6-152; Acts 1994, 1st Ex. Sess., No. 94-817, §1.)

Section 13A-11-75

License to carry pistol in vehicle or concealed on person - Issuance; term; form; fee; revocation.

The sheriff of a county may, upon the application of any person residing in that county, issue a qualified or unlimited license to such person to carry a pistol in a vehicle or concealed on or about his person within this state for not more than one year from date of issue, if it appears that the applicant has good reason to fear injury to his person or property or has any other proper reason for carrying a pistol, and that he is a suitable person to be so licensed. The license shall be in triplicate, in form to be prescribed by the Secretary of State, and shall bear the name, address, description and signature of the licensee and the reason given for desiring a license. The original thereof shall be delivered to the licensee, the duplicate shall, within seven days, be sent by registered or certified mail to the Director of Public Safety and the triplicate shall be preserved for six years by the authority issuing the same. The fee for issuing such license shall be $1.00 which shall be paid into the county treasury. The sheriff may revoke a license upon proof that the licensee is not a proper person to be licensed.
(Acts 1936, Ex. Sess., No. 82, p. 51; Code 1940, T. 14, §177; Acts 1947, No. 616, p. 463, §5; Acts 1951, No. 784, p. 1378; Code 1975, §13-6-155.)

Good question, but you also need to be aware of Section 13A-11-72(d): I believe (d) is the "penalty" provision, and I can read the difference in the law, but why would (e) then not state "(c) and (d) do not apply..."? It all revolves around some distinctions I'm certainly not comfortable making.

I would not, personally, based on the above, but I am very conservative. Alabama residents with experience?

Dr_CMG? Others?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,409 Posts
Man, for them to say it's ok to carry at school, they sure put a lot of rules to go along with it.

OFFICIAL TERMINOLOGY:


Legal Mumbo Jumbo
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
159 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
IMO the wording seems to say that it is OK to carry on school property as long as one doesn't have the "intent" of shooting someone.

Just to be on safe side (of law) I've decided to go unarmed that day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,741 Posts
In the case of conflicting laws, what I've seen happen in the past is the local LE doesn't arrest you, but they write a report and forward it to the feds (FBI, ATF, etc) and then THEY may decide to follow up and arrest you later.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25,481 Posts
Doncha love ''grey'' laws!!!

Sorta - ''yes ya can but - yada, yada, yada - see subsection C paragraph 6 iii - codicil z.''
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,806 Posts
The Answer Is NO

I do not know about your "State Pistol Permit," but mine in Perry County lists Qualifications. Filed in by the Sheriff's Office are Car and Person meaning that I am qualified to carry concealed on my person and in my vehicle. Printed on the permit at the time it is printed are the following words: "No courthouses or schools." Section 13(a)-11-72 of the Alabama Criminal Code explains what "schools" in that statement means. It says, "Premises of a public school." It then explains what it means by "public school." "The term "public school" as used in this section applies only to a shcool composed of grades K-12 and shall include a school bus used for grades K-12."

My information comes not from Packing.org which is a good organization, but from a copy of the Alabama Code in the library where I work as the reference librarian.

The answer is: NO!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
24,738 Posts
dr_cmg said:
My information comes not from Packing.org which is a good organization, but from a copy of the Alabama Code in the library where I work as the reference librarian.
Doctor: Thanks for helping our understanding of Alabama law! You the man!

:congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats:
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
24,738 Posts
Freakshow: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats:

Please note in the above posts I'm applauding the posters for going to the Authoritative Source which is the recommended course of action when any CC question arises. PDO is a tool, and provides summaries which can be useful, but it is not Authoritative.

It usually takes more time - but then you know!

Thank you, Doctor, and thank you, freakshow!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,806 Posts
The problem that Packing.org has with Alabama law especially is that it is scattered over a multitude of places. The section that they have posted is the largest part of the code concerning concealed weapons, but the section that expressly forbids carry at courthouses and schools is in another place. The section that PDO has does however explain what the definition of a school is. It would be great if it was in one section, but we don't get to determine that. Having the code right here is a big benefit to me, but sometime I still have to go to the state website where the code is online and so a search to find the other obscure places that affect the main law. Started out looking at the code about knives as weapons and discover some to the oddities. The other thing that is nice about having the text is that you can then go to case law and find out how the law has been interpreted. This is especially helpful in determining about the legality of knives.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,686 Posts
All specific State CCW related information IS contained in PDO. It just requires a little searching to get to specific State code data.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Federal wording of carry on school property

IF your state allows carry on school property, Federal law also allows carry on school property AS LONG AS you have been licensed to carry and the licensing procedure essentially includes a background check (almost all states do, I believe). A snippet from 18 USC § 922 (q):

(2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm –

if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;......

Hope this helps.

A Montana LEO
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top