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Discussion Starter #1
during a routine traffic stop i pulled out my drivers license, registration, and proof of insurance. montana doesnt require you to tell a police officer that you have a weapon, but as a courtesy to the highway patrolman and a service to myself (i didnt want any surprises if he noticed i was armed) i also handed him my ccw. as he thumbed through my paperwork he reached my ccw and asked if i was armed to which i replied "yes sir, i handed you my permit to prevent any surprises". as he looked at my ccw and looked back at me (to make sure i was the guy in the picture, i guess) he nonchalantly reached down and unsnapped the retention strap on his holster. he ran my license, and several minutes later he sent me on my way.

the officer was completely professional, respectful, and courteous (i would expect nothing less of montanas finest) and i was also courteous and respectful. i dont think he meant for me to notice that he had unsnapped his retention strap. what i dont understand, is what motivated him to do it.

i could understand if he had unsnapped his retention strap as he initially approached my vehicle. at that point, he knew nothing of me and im told that i can look "scary" sometimes. what i dont understand, is why he would unsnap his retention strap after recognizing me as a valid ccw holder. yes, my ccw told him that im armed (as is 99.99% of anyone you meet in rural montana), but my ccw also says:

  • i am not a felon
  • i have passed extensive local and fbi background checks
  • i have been fingerprinted and completed safety courses
  • i have demonstrated respectable character
  • i obey the law
dont misunderstand, i can appreciate the position any officer places himself in throughout his duty of enforcing the law, but i just dont understand why a valid photo i.d. ccw would make him feel threatened. :confused:
 

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He might have been threatened by you having a gun .. Some cops will admit they are not much else would come to mind why he would do that
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Bud White said:
He might have been threatened by you having a gun
certainly, but 1- everybody has a weapon in rural montana, 2 - all the reasons i listed above. having a gun is perfectly normal behaviour for montana, and i clearly had it legally. it just seemed like an irrational move.
 

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NaturalSelection said:
certainly, but 1- everybody has a weapon in rural montana, 2 - all the reasons i listed above. having a gun is perfectly normal behaviour for montana, and i clearly had it legally. it just seemed like an irrational move.
Thats true but ya still have to rember that some people that are police are still not comfortable with you having a gun thats just the way it is .
 

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First rule as an officer, survive the shift. If you have a gun, then he will want to be able to get his out fast in case. While you are probably a lot less of a threat, better to be safe than sorry. Especially if he was alone and backup was a long way off.
 

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I'd say it was a 1% precautionary move - if not almost habit. Sure it was after you'd declared your status but hey - no harm no foul.

I certainly agree, those guys with traffic stops sure do wanna get home at night. I doubt I would be 100% at ease - with anyone at all - too many cases of being caught out by ''nice'' guys.

You know you were Mr GG and (almost) so did he :wink:.
 

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The way you wrote it, I thought he unsnapped in humor. Put yourself in his shoes. If I was an LEO, I'd have likely done the same thing.

Rocky told about himself getting stopped once. They made him unload his gun and mag and place it all on the dash. At least he didn't disarm you. Some LEOs in some states will disarm you, just precautionary. I think getting anyone in a traffic stop to start playing with their gun is less safe than letting you keep it holstered. It's not always easy to get to your gun when you're sitting in your car, buckled up. If he has you take it out and "clear" it, it would be much easier for one to shoot the LEO.
 

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CYA as far as cop concerned
 

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normal paranoia for a LEO if ya' ask me... :gah:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
im not faulting him in any way. again, he was courteous and professional. i just didnt understand his (what i deemed) excessive caution. if i had been an off duty deputy from another county, i doubt he would have unsnapped his retention strap.

i guess i found it so odd because of where we were.....literally middle of nowhere montana where the most exciting thing that ever happens is a buffalo standing in the middle of the highway.
 

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I would say that when you told him you had a gun he realized that he aproached your vehicle to close to condition white and imediatly went to yellow. I say good for him. The next time he stops someone he will probably be more prepared. It is to easy to get lax on the 'normal' everyday routine.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
raevan said:
I would say that when you told him you had a gun he realized that he aproached your vehicle to close to condition white and imediatly went to yellow. I say good for him.
please clarify your statement. are you suggesting i shouldnt have given him my ccw without being asked for it? i didnt draw my weapon to show it to him......i handed him an identification issued me by my local sheriff that says i have met all the requirements to be considered fit......and dont see how that in itself would send up red flags. to the contrary, statistically (and reasonably) the ccw holder is the guy you dont have to worry about getting stupid. i understand that having a ccw doesnt give you a "free pass", but i dont understand why having one (and doing the right thing in making it known to prevent any potential "misunderstandings") would automatically send up red flags.

i remember when ccw was being debated in north carolina. the police seemed collectively against it for some reason.
 

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naw what he was saying was the Officer might have been in cond white in other words not truly thinking of what he was doing instead of thinking .. All right i got someone pulled over need to be ready to do something at any time be it draw gun duck etc etc..

He was thinking .. hum can wait to get home check out the mrs in that little victoria's secret # she just bought ...

And then you show him you CCW and his mind screamed at him ohh #$%^ what am i thinking and doing i came to this car totally unprepared ...

Not sure if these were his actually thought but you get my drift
 

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I agree with it just being CYA. I've only been stopped once, routine license check, told the officer I was carrying and handed him my permit, as I'm required to do in NC. He asked what I was carrying and I said 'CZ 2075 RAMI .40 subcompact loaded with Hydra Shocks". He just laughed and said "Get out of here!".
 

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PA doesn't require you to tell police, so as a rule of thumb I DON'T. None have ever known I was carrying, and that makes things less nervy for the both of us.
 

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Perhaps he did it as a gentle reminder, that he too is armed, lest you be one of the .00000000000000000000000000001 percent of CCW holders who truly is a Bad Guy. As much as we loathe their existence, there *are* going to be a (thankfully miniscule) few criminally inclined individuals who pass all the checks and are legally carrying. Perhaps he did it thinking something along the lines of, "I'm sure you're most likely one of the Good Guys, but just on the microscopic chance you're not...(casually unsnaps holster)...just remember, I'm armed, too, and I WILL be ending my shift without any extra holes in me!" :wave:
 

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I tell you what, if I were a cop, pulling over a car, esp. at night, I'd be anything but relaxed, and I sure wouldn't want my gun strapped down.

A cop has no idea what he may be walking into. We have seen numerous times where a cop has been injured or killed in a "routine" stop.

"We" may not be a danger to the cop, but the guy hidden in the back seat threatening to shoot us if we "tell" just might be a danger.
 

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It probably just dawned on him that he had not unsnapped it earlier.
Once he saw your License To Carry...seeing it "Tripped The Gun Trigger" & then he just unsnapped his retention strap as force of habit.
Which BTW he should have already done earlier...before approaching your vehicle...regardless of who you were.
I sure would not take it personally.
I could see how it would seem odd to you though.
Especially since WE are the least likely of all citizens to ever cause him any sort of problems.
In PA we also are not required to notify.
Now that I am older & wiser...I would only notify verbally as a common courtesy if I were asked to exit my vehicle & then I would absolutely calmly keep both hands in plain view & then wait for further instructions from the LEO...and then slowly follow those exact instructions. Just my opinion (& the opinion of a few other LEOs) on that.
BTW I have talked to several LEOs in my area (including one Alleg Cnty Sheriff Dep & 1 State) & (so far) that is how they would prefer it.
On the evening of the 15th I have a meeting w/ our local Police Chief & I'll ask him about it & then post his opinion.
 

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Natural,

One thing to keep in mind also, If I read it right, he unsnapped the strap before running your liscense through the system. However unlikley, your I.D. could have been fake or you could have even reciently been in trouble and had your permit revoked. Their is even the highly unlikleyhood of that evil twin brother using your I.D. I actually served on a Grand Jury where that happend and when the GG failed to show up for court and was arrested, it was figured out and we got the request to send the BG to court. ( He went)

My first encounter with LE while carrieng happend just a couple of weeks ago, The state trooper unsnapped his strap on the way to the car. I told him I had a gun and a permit (with hands on the wheel) before undoing my seatbelt, and especially before reaching anywhere in the car. He has a tough job and I didn't want to give him any reason to be suspecious. Here in VA, a run of our liscense has a note which tells the officer if you do or do not have a CCW. I also wanted to be upfront and show I wasn't hiding anything. The whole stop when fine, and we both went home.
:hand10:
 

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Young Cops v Experienced Cops....

jarhead79 said:
The way you wrote it, I thought he unsnapped in humor. Put yourself in his shoes. If I was an LEO, I'd have likely done the same thing.

Rocky told about himself getting stopped once. They made him unload his gun and mag and place it all on the dash. At least he didn't disarm you. Some LEOs in some states will disarm you, just precautionary. I think getting anyone in a traffic stop to start playing with their gun is less safe than letting you keep it holstered. It's not always easy to get to your gun when you're sitting in your car, buckled up. If he has you take it out and "clear" it, it would be much easier for one to shoot the LEO.
I don't mind when LEO's show good training and act from condition yellow maybe even condition orange in certain situations. Florida is a must notify state. Since I first got my FL permit in 1987, I have had the occasion to make this "notification" just about four times. Once was a situation like czman2006 where he asked me what I was carrying and how, and when I replied: Sig P245 IWB strongside hip he basically laughed and let me go. The other two just said to keep my hands where they could see them and make no sudden moves and it'd be cool. Note that these were OLD patrol lobos who'd prolly seen it all several times.

But this one time, I was pulled over at an "insurance" (read DWI) checkpoint. I notified this young pup that I was carrying and suddenly I'm staring into the muzzle of a Glock 17 and his finger is on the trigger! That didn't worry me as much as the amount he was shaking and how his voice quavered when he commanded me to exit the car, lock my fingers behind my neck and walk backwards to him. Instructions I followed very carefully. All the while I could hear his older partner screaming at him. The FNG drew my Sig and cleared it (thank God he got that right, I had my doubts) and then ran the numbers several times....and his partner apologized to me and said the FNG was one reason he was retiring soon....and when the kid got no hits he proceeded to grill me on exactly WHY I felt the "need" to carry a gun....When he gave me an opening to speak...I DID.

20 min later I'm on my way and the kid is still shaking with anger at my response, but his training officer told him if he wanted to become a real cop, he'd better sit down and STFU. The older guy wound up coming out to the range and shooting with my club which was at that time an IPSC club. This was long before IDPA.
 
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