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Discussion Starter #1
question....

I have a good friend who has his CCw here in Colorado.
He is also disabled and on social security.
His doctor is willing to give him a medical card for marijuana but I told him he might not be able to carry if he does this....has there been any discussion on this at all...if a doctor does authorize can he still legally carry or does that make null his CCW license.
here in Colorado on your application it does ask about drugs.
since it is considered a prescription and is legal here to use will this effect his CCw?????
never run into this question before.
 

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I guess one would have to see what the exact wording is on both the CCW application or laws regarding the CCW, and the laws regarding medical useage of pot.

Since we don't allow medical usage down here in Texas it wouldn't fly here.
 

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As far as I'm concerned, it's no different than drinking alcohol and carrying or taking narcotic pain killers and carrying.

While you are under the influence, you shouldn't be carrying...

Not to say that your right to defend yourself, ends because you are under the influence, however, if you use a firearm, you may very likely get jammed up in civil litigation as well as possibly criminal charges.

In Missouri, when ccw was passed, the penalties for gun offenses became enhanced. More serious charges and penalties for gun offense if you are also deemed under the influence.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
My friend tells me that he would only use at nite when he goes to bed to help him sleep better....that being said it does stay in system about 30 days I hear so would he be considered under the influence even during the day when he has not used it since the previous nite....I mean how long does being under the influence last?? and are you really ok when you have not used it in 12 hours or so??
 

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As far as I'm concerned, it's no different than drinking alcohol and carrying or taking narcotic pain killers and carrying.
Not that I condone any of it, but there is a HUGE difference, especially when compared to alcohol.
 

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I agree with the person who wrote that it would really depend on the exact wording of the specific laws regarding issuance/retention of a CHL in your state.

You might start by looking into what the law (and actual state practice) does with the CHLs of folks taking pain medication or similar, perhaps anti-seizure meds, on a regular basis. I don't know for example if in your state taking diazepam like meds or barbiturates to prevent epileptic seizures would prevent you from obtaining a license.

In the end, regardless of the law, the important question is one of impaired judgment.

Sorry to hear your friend is ill.
 

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You make a good point, and that is going to have to be addressed via one avenue or another.
 

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toxicology

My friend tells me that he would only use at nite when he goes to bed to help him sleep better....that being said it does stay in system about 30 days I hear so would he be considered under the influence even during the day when he has not used it since the previous nite....I mean how long does being under the influence last?? and are you really ok when you have not used it in 12 hours or so??
Having detectable levels of metabolites in your body and being under the influence are two different things. You can detect most drug use in hair samples 90 days after the fact; that doesn't mean the person is intoxicated for 90 days. Same for detection of metabolites in urine a couple of days after the fact; it doesn't translate to impairment. (Some of you may recall my previous posts advocating employment impairment testing rather than drug testing in the workplace.)

That said, there is so much craziness in our society about drug use that one might well not expect jurors or jurists to rationally sort this sort of thing out.

I have read somewhere along the way that the effect lasts about 8-12 hours, but I don't know if that is true and I am no expert, and moreover, it would depend on how much was used and its potency.

I think if I were in your friend's situation, and out of an abundance of caution, I would not carry if I were using on a regular basis. Not, because I think it would necessarily be illegal or unsafe, but because it almost certainly would be misrepresented if he were involved in an SD shooting. The situation could be used to turn a perfectly good shoot into a charge or accrual of civil liability.
 

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"intoxication" is intoxication. I know from the experience during my youth that a couple of bong hits or sharing a joint with someone puts you in an altered state. You are not stumbling around but you are most definately intoxicated. In fact I dont realy believe it is possible to smoke weed and not become intoxicated. You can drink a beer and maybe even two depending on weight and not experience intoxication, but the effects of smoking marajuana is immediate and noticable.

I think most people understand this and that is why marajuana is not already legal everywhere. The loss of reasoning and motor function occurs along a different path than alcohol intoxication and cant be directly compared at all stages but it most defenately applies and will occur if consumed in excess just like with alcohol.

Back to the original topic at hand, you are immediately intoxicated the moment you inhale marajuana. Unless you are an everyday smoker you are far beyond the equivilent of .08 after a few bong hits or a joint. I say all this to stress the fact that if you are going to smoke, you need to put the guns up in your safe and dont even think about carrying.
 

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Seems to me your friend would be better served seeking the advice of an attorney who practices in Colorado for the legal answer. From a personal standpoint, if I'm carrying, I don't drink, I don't do prescription meds which might affect my decision making process, and I don't do illegal drugs period, carrying or not.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Seems to me your friend would be better served seeking the advice of an attorney who practices in Colorado for the legal answer. From a personal standpoint, if I'm carrying, I don't drink, I don't do prescription meds which might affect my decision making process, and I don't do illegal drugs period, carrying or not.
I am like you in that I stay the straight and narrow...I really don't drink anymore as being a diabetic it really screws with my body.
I just know this question is going to come up and from my discussions with my friend I know he won't carry if he has been smoking but I was really concerned about the lasting effects when he was not using at the present moment.
 

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I would suggest your friend stay at home while he's on his medication. Drug and or alcohol abuse rules one out for a permit in my state. I think it would be a fine line to cross as to use and abuse, the laws, and the term 'under the influence'. My opinion is that alcohol is far worse than weed as far as how they affect the human body and brain. Thing is they can actually measure the effects of alcohol with tests, and with weed they can't. So anytime you smell like weed, it's kind of an automatic under the influence. I think one should always be at the top of their game when carrying. Drugs/alcohol and guns don't mix....it's been proven, and it continues to be proven day in and day out. I want to be around someone under the influence, carrying a gun, on the streets as much as I do working around a co-worker who's under the influence that could get me killed on the job.
 

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Having detectable levels of metabolites in your body and being under the influence are two different things. You can detect most drug use in hair samples 90 days after the fact; that doesn't mean the person is intoxicated for 90 days. Same for detection of metabolites in urine a couple of days after the fact; it doesn't translate to impairment. (Some of you may recall my previous posts advocating employment impairment testing rather than drug testing in the workplace.)

That said, there is so much craziness in our society about drug use that one might well not expect jurors or jurists to rationally sort this sort of thing out.

I have read somewhere along the way that the effect lasts about 8-12 hours, but I don't know if that is true and I am no expert, and moreover, it would depend on how much was used and its potency.

I think if I were in your friend's situation, and out of an abundance of caution, I would not carry if I were using on a regular basis. Not, because I think it would necessarily be illegal or unsafe, but because it almost certainly would be misrepresented if he were involved in an SD shooting. The situation could be used to turn a perfectly good shoot into a charge or accrual of civil liability.
I agree Hopyard... Very well articulated. I also advocate "impairment testing" as opposed to testing for the presence and attempting to apply a certain or arbitrary level of presence as to what intoxication is. That is pretty archaic.

For the record, in regards to alcohol. It is so quickly absorbed into the blood stream that you can place a drop on tongue and immediate draw a blood sample from the arm, and there will be a detectable reading showing the presence of alcohol in the blood.
 

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I think it depends on the letter of the law. Here, it's to the effect of you can only have RX drugs, only ones that have been Prescribed to you by a licensed physician, and only in THERAPEUTIC doses in your system.

Meaning if you take Adderall, for example, you have to have a Script for it, by a legit Doctor, and you have to take as directed or else you're in violation.

I'd imagine that if your friend has a script for pot, then it's legal. Although personally, I would never carry while on a sedative/depressant. You open yourself to a world of scary "what ifs" including a messed up reaction time and a host of litigation and possible charges if you're involved in a shooting and you're high.
 

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Bear in mind that although state law may allow for prescription of "medical marijuana", possession of marijuana is still illegal under federal law...
 

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As far as I'm concerned, it's no different than drinking alcohol and carrying or taking narcotic pain killers and carrying.

While you are under the influence, you shouldn't be carrying...
Yes, though those can be taken without putting someone so far over the edge that they're "influenced" by the substance, as with a few sips of wine with a meal, or pain meds dialed to simply take the edge off. Though each person needs to know the effects, being impacted only happens above a certain "dose" for most folks.
 

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"intoxication" is intoxication. I know from the experience during my youth that a couple of bong hits or sharing a joint with someone puts you in an altered state. You are not stumbling around but you are most definately intoxicated. In fact I dont realy believe it is possible to smoke weed and not become intoxicated. You can drink a beer and maybe even two depending on weight and not experience intoxication, but the effects of smoking marajuana is immediate and noticable.

Queensidecas

While I would agree that in either case you sighted you may not be "intoxicated" (legally) I would disagree with the idea that you put forth above. I think that one would be just as altered after a drink of beer/wine/grain based alcohol as they would be after a hit of pot. Mental functions slow on either; judgement is impared and reaction time is altered from either intoxicate. Again intoxication has not reached its max but it has/is occurring. One might reach the legal level of intoxicated with pot more quickly but one is impared from the start with both.
 

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Marijuana's active 'ingredient' Tetrahydrocannibanol (THC) will stay in your blood for 30-45 days or longer depending on your metabolism. Hair tests can show use for 6 months.

From a CIVIL lawsuit standpoint, the MJ user would be hard pressed to explain their use to a court deciding whether to award the 'victim' of the shooting millions because the shooter was impaired.

Was he using MJ? Yes, but only at night. Then...you used, so you were impaired when you shot.

Impairment? I could bring in 5 different 'experts' for hire that would state he was in an altered state of consciousness when he fired.

IMO, he positions himself in a VERY tenuous position with carrying and using MJ at anytime, 'medical' or not.
 

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I believe that if one takes something that impairs their judgment it would prevent legal carrying.
In general I am with Bark'N on this one.

Regards,
Jerry
 

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Thing is they can actually measure the effects of alcohol with tests, and with weed they can't.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but really they're just measuring the quantity of alcohol in your blood, not the alcohol's effects.

Some folk are drunk at 0.08 ("drunk" in MI), others could out-drive and out react 75% of the population at 0.08. Somewhat arbitrary if you asked me.
 
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