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Discussion Starter #1
Not a fan of the tribal marketing model of USCCA.

So, between CCWSafe or ACLDN, which would (did) you choose?
 

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CCW Safe. I like their service contract model. Hope that I never need to use it.
 

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I am totally confused. What is this thread about?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Seems both have solid attributes but CCWSafe seems slightly more comprehensive. I'll call both tomorrow.
 

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Interesting side note: I asked USCCA what happens if they had (for example) 10 simultaneous cases in which their services where required to defend members.

USCCA's answer:

Right now there are 60 USCCA members involved in legal self defense after a physical self defense incident. We're assisting all of them with their legal defense.

Interesting. They didn't elaborate on any of the details (which of course they can't). But I'm most curious about the mechanics of what they are paying for, if it's all upfront to avoid out of pocket, etc...

From what I can tell, CCWSafe does cover the up front fees to avoid out-of-pocket costs.
 

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I've been a member of the ACLDN for a long time now. Great people on their Board, and they put out some great training.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I chose ACLDN because Massad Ayoob is on the board. Plus there is this:

The "Ayoob factor" weighs heavily for me as a benefit of ACLDN and their board is strong. The DVDs seem old school (as opposed to simple online access) but useful.

How's the customer service of ACLDN? Can you call or email them with basic questions?
 
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The "Ayoob factor" weighs heavily for me as a benefit of ACLDN and their board is strong. The DVDs seem old school (as opposed to simple online access) but useful.

How's the customer service of ACLDN? Can you call or email them with basic questions?
I find the customer service to be first class. I had several questions, and they answered them quickly and satisfactorily. One of the the other things that I really find valuable is the ongoing "Ask a lawyer" column in the monthly newsletter in which the same question is asked of several of the network attorneys from across the country. The questions come from members, or sometimes from events reported in the news. The viewpoints presented by these right of self defense orientated attorneys are great for helping the members avoid dangers and pitfalls when it comes to using deadly force to protect one's life.

BTW, the videos are on DVDs for a reason. The network expects its members to study and be aware of what we can and cannot do in order to legally use a firearm to protect ourselves. As you watch those DVDs you will be taking notes. Those notes will be stored on the network's servers. If, God forbid, you find yourself being forced to use deadly force and have to justify your actions, those DVDs and the notes that you took while you watched them, will be available to be introduced as evidence to show the rationale behind your decision making process, and how it was based on your studying.

I recently renewed my membership in the network. I did so because I really appreciate the peace of mind I have knowing that if I were to be involved in an incident that I would have legal representation from the very beginning from someone who specializes in defending the legal use of force by law abiding citizens, rather than from someone who is used to defending crooks and dirtbags all the time.

My understanding is that most of the network members who seek help and are represented after a use of force incident are never charged. I have no doubt that the fact that they have representation from very early on in the incident plays a large part in that outcome.

IMHO carrying a firearm brings with it the burden of responsibility. Not only the responsibility of being able to carry and shoot that firearm safely, but also the responsibility to know under what circumstances it is legal to use that weapon. This is particularly important in these days of the anti-gun crowd spreading fear and disinformation among the folks who could very well end up on the jury judging our actions.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
IMHO carrying a firearm brings with it the burden of responsibility. Not only the responsibility of being able to carry and shoot that firearm safely, but also the responsibility to know under what circumstances it is legal to use that weapon. This is particularly important in these days of the anti-gun crowd spreading fear and disinformation among the folks who could very well end up on the jury judging our actions.
Really good points, thank you.

The quote here is why I've decided to go for legal services when I previously surmised these "services" were scams. We may be entitled to carry because of the 2nd Amendment and our state laws, but the overall responsibility in carrying a firearm is much greater than just our right to do so.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I just read today that CCWSafe has partnered with 2A Insurance.

This seems to be a fairly important development.
 
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Interesting side note: I asked USCCA what happens if they had (for example) 10 simultaneous cases in which their services where required to defend members.

USCCA's answer:

Right now there are 60 USCCA members involved in legal self defense after a physical self defense incident. We're assisting all of them with their legal defense.

Interesting. They didn't elaborate on any of the details (which of course they can't). But I'm most curious about the mechanics of what they are paying for, if it's all upfront to avoid out of pocket, etc...

From what I can tell, CCWSafe does cover the up front fees to avoid out-of-pocket costs.


"[with USCCA] it's all upfront to avoid out of pocket..." -- This is a 100% correct statement for criminal defense regarding our programs.

Civil suits are generally charged by the hour so the "pay as you go" model applies there in most cases.

Also, thank you so much for understanding that we want to be as transparent as possible without getting sued by folks who have ongoing cases. :D


Robb
~USCCA Social Care
 

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Discussion Starter #17
"[with USCCA] it's all upfront to avoid out of pocket..." -- This is a 100% correct statement for criminal defense regarding our programs.

Civil suits are generally charged by the hour so the "pay as you go" model applies there in most cases.

Also, thank you so much for understanding that we want to be as transparent as possible without getting sued by folks who have ongoing cases. :D


Robb
~USCCA Social Care
Robb- thanks for responding. Can you clarify what you mean by "pay as you go" for civil cases? Does this mean the member "pays as the civil case goes" or that USCCA pays throughout the process?
 

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Concelaed Carry Insurance

I am the General Counsel and Founder of CCW Safe. You can go to ccwsafe.com and see the current updated comparison charts, even the ones done by the NRA's new re-boot of their product. As a former police officer and attorney practicing for 20 years, I helped form CCW Safe as a model of a police union availab le to civilians. In January of 2017 we formed our own captive insurance company, 2A Insurance, to have a funding mechanism that makes us the most stable comapny in this industry. All ofour competitors cap their legal fees. We do not. Even the ACLDN is really a grant organization and in no way will provide enough money to pay a lawyer in a serious case. A homicide case, of which we have in our claims right now, is incredibly expensive. Our competitors simply do not even understand what expenses are involved in a defense of such a case. Don West, co-counsel in the Geroge Zimmerman case, is our National Trial Counsel. Our service is built to pay the actual expenes incurred in a defense, whether you are guilty or innocent or whether you accept a plea to a lesser offense. No one else can say that. So, if you have a competitor and accept a plea then you have pleaded yourself out of coverage and you are responsible for the attorney fees. Read the fine print on these. We welcome calls on this subject at any time. We are confident that when one looks at what they will actually get as a member, the choice is quite clear.
 
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