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Discussion Starter #1
In lite of a couple of recent threads I was wondering if maybe a majority of us would be better served by carrying a cellphone and a video camera vs. a cellphone and CCW.

You know, to call 911 and be a good witness.

Flame suit on.:image035:
 

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Not sure how good a witness I would make if the bad guy shoots me.

Not sure how happy I would be recording a violent crime against me or my loved ones, or anyone else for that matter. I'd much rather defend myself with a gun.

Since most cell phones today have video cameras built in, it is somewhat of a moot point.

Can you post a link to the threads you are referring to?
 

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I carry to protect my family and myself. Anything over and above that will be at my discretion. Otherwise, as you stated "I will be a good witness and call 911".
 

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I didn't start carrying to enforce laws or protect others (that's their responsibility). I carry so I can defend myself and family if we are ever in an unfortunate situation. For everything else I'm happy to be a witness.
 

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I didn't start carrying to enforce laws or protect others (that's their responsibility). I carry so I can defend myself and family if we are ever in an unfortunate situation. For everything else I'm happy to be a witness.
+1.... I am not a LEO.
 

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I was an LEO...I'd be a good witness...It's not my job to save the world...
 

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I'm not a cop. I'm not "The Brave One" I'm not part of the neighborhood watch and my CHP didn't come W/ a bat cape.

I carry for the protection of myself & familiy.

I tend to get suspicious of those who think their CHP designates them "defenders of the flock". It's almost like they're just waiting for a chance to be a hero.

Heros get people killed I want no part of it
 

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My PPE is for me and mine, ergo it is not my problem until it becomes my problem.

I was given a scenario type question when I was taking my NV permit class, that was close to one when I took my CO class 2+ years ago, and I am pleased that my mentality has sufficiently changed since I first started carrying.

Never get involved in something you walk into, and even if you are there from the very start, you still don't know enough.

Engage brain first, and keep a lid on the emotions.
 

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defend..... the flock?

the same flock that want to take away my right to carry protection?

not a chance in hell! I went through a 12 hour course, got the background anal probe, fingerprinted like some common criminal and waited forever so I could hold a piece of plastic that says I can exercise my second ammendment without LEO stopping me every 30 seconds (open carry is legal but not practiced) .
If I ended up loosing it to save some ungrateful sheep, that would be my own fault.

I'm not obligated to defend you. Nor are you obligated to defend me. Same goes for LEO. They arn't obligated to defend you either. All I have to do to be a good citizen is call 911 and tip them off. ANONYMOUSLY

"Heros" are often prosecuted more harsh then the criminal they where trying to stop. Then when their life gets torn to shreads...they get the civil suit and loose what little they have left.

If you be a "hero" and succeed... walk away... don't identify yourself to anyone just walk away, then prey to the great god that nobody finds you.
 

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You know thinking about it the OP may have a bit of a point. (While taking video could/should never replace your CCW) With response time from LEOs vs. the ammount of time an assault or mugging or even a robery might take chances are it will be over before the cavalry arrives. By all means they need to be called but actualy getting video of the incident may be more helpful. On 9/11 I recall I was sitting at a stop light on a very busy intersection when two car loads of teenage boys jumped out of their cars and started a fist fight right there. I was actualy sitting there laughing to myself as the bigest one couldn't have been more than 125lbs and none of them were doing much damage. When the light turned green they jumped back in their cars and took off. It couldn't have taken more than a minute and would have taken five times longer for the police to show.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
You know thinking about it the OP may have a bit of a point. (While taking video could/should never replace your CCW) With response time from LEOs vs. the ammount of time an assault or mugging or even a robery might take chances are it will be over before the cavalry arrives. By all means they need to be called but actualy getting video of the incident may be more helpful. On 9/11 I recall I was sitting at a stop light on a very busy intersection when two car loads of teenage boys jumped out of their cars and started a fist fight right there. I was actualy sitting there laughing to myself as the bigest one couldn't have been more than 125lbs and none of them were doing much damage. When the light turned green they jumped back in their cars and took off. It couldn't have taken more than a minute and would have taken five times longer for the police to show.
This is the kind of situation I was refering to. Though my O.P. had a hint of sarcasm, I was looking to spark a informative debate.
 

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I believe the purpose of the concealed weapon is to "prevent" the crime, whereas the cellphone only provides evidence afterwards. I would much rather have someone shoot the man attacking me with a knife than give the cops a photo of him sticking it my chest afterwards.

You agree with that concept?
 

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And for those who aren't here to protect others, are you going to stand by and watch? Like the kids watching the gang-rape In Ca. and the kid in Chicago getting his head bashed in? Where is your sense of moral responsibility. No one suggested you patrol the street looking for trouble in which to intervene. But, don't you think the right thing to do is step in where needed? What if a LEO decided not to interven because the problem was between you and your attacker?
I'm not going to stand by and take pictures of some thug beating an old lady to get her SS check when I have the power to stop it. If you think you could merely stand there with cellphone in hand and sleep well when you could have saved the woman from a deadly assult, make sure your cellphone is charged up.
 

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I believe the purpose of the concealed weapon is to "prevent" the crime, whereas the cellphone only provides evidence afterwards. I would much rather have someone shoot the man attacking me with a knife than give the cops a photo of him sticking it my chest afterwards.

You agree with that concept?
Most definatly. I'm just saying if someones life isn't in eminent peril, taking a snap shot before dialing 911 might be a good idea.
 

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And for those who aren't here to protect others, are you going to stand by and watch? ..... What if a LEO decided not to interven because the problem was between you and your attacker?
Actually LEO's aren't required to intervene to protect you. Their job is to investigate and apprehend criminals. This is one of the reasons that many of us advocate the carrying of firearms, to protect and defend ourselves. It is the obligation of the individual to protect them self. If you feel morally obligated to help someone that is your decision and more power to you. I'm not going to put myself in danger to protect someone who didn't take the proper precautions that were available to them. My wife wouldn't be very happy if a stranger is alive but I'm dead.
 

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I'm with others here, I carry for SD only.
Law enforcement is for LEO's.
Otherwise I'm a citizen who will be a good witness of what I see.

Having said that, there was an indecent where a camera was used in SD and possibly saved a life.

I was with a friend (coworker) working in Dahran Saudi Arabia, back in 1993.
We had to go over to Bahrain to pick up a part for the airplane we were maintaining. While in Bahrain, we spent a little time exploring the shopping districts in Manama. My friend is tall thin blond haired, we nick named him "Hollywood" (Looked like a beach boy.)
We are in this crowded street when two Arabs wearing black gutras (gutra = head diaper) come up either side of my friend and grab him and start taking him into an alley. NOT GOOD!
So I quickly call to them and raise my camera to take their picture, and the Arabs just as quickly let my friend go and disappear.
We left that area.

So, anyhow, a camera CAN be used for SD.

Just my 2 cents.
 

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Where is your sense of moral responsibility.
I don't have one

What if a LEO decided not to interven because the problem was between you and your attacker?
Cops rarely , if ever, "intervene" they show after it's all over and gather evidence. Expecting the police to protect me is no part of my SD plan.
 

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Well, I’d like to say I’d stand by and be a good witness. And in that case a cell-video camera would be a great tool. And that really is what a CCL holder should do, and only use his/her sidearm to protect one’s self and family.

But, that’s what I should do, and in the past I never have. I don’t know if it’s because I use to be an LEO or if it’s because I just cannot stand by and watch someone being beaten, robbed, or other.
 

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That video that you link the page to .... you can't even tell who is the GG and who is the BG... im not about to play cop.... only if they start swinging at me will i be worried...
 
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