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Seems reasonable. If there are cops you can tell who will respond. Not a given anymore.
I understand your point, but there are still police agencies as of today. Tomorrow, if there are no police, we can revisit. I honestly think this defund the police, bail reform and other policies politicians have made to buy votes will turn around and bite them. All we've seen in spikes in shootings, etc. as the police are told to back-off. This situation can only get worse, not better.
 

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I understand your point, but there are still police agencies as of today. Tomorrow, if there are no police, we can revisit. I honestly think this defund the police, bail reform and other policies politicians have made to buy votes will turn around and bite them. All we've seen in spikes in shootings, etc. as the police are told to back-off. This situation can only get worse, not better.
I'm not even talking defunding and "tomorrow if there are no police." I am talking about still fully funded police departments all over the country, today, who aren't enforcing the law anymore. They are just standing around watching people take over parts of their cities. There are many places in major cities, right now, where someone calling the cops over a robbery will get no response at all.

Atlanta is currently having so many cops call in sick that some nights, the department is outright saying they will only take the most serious calls.

Then there are cities like Cincinnati, as just an example of many, many PDs that now have a permanent list of crimes on their website, including "assault that does not result in hospitalization" and a whole list of other crimes, they will no longer send out officers for, ever. You can phone in a report if you want, although I think the chance of it being followed up on are slim.

This is not some future fear. More and more, citizens are on their own.
 

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@scottync In NC, it's illegal for a civilian to pursue an alleged criminal. NC does not have a citizen's arrest statute. When the perp fled the scene, the threat was over. This will probably not end well for the homeowner.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
A man who tried to break into a Fayetteville apartment early Monday was shot and killed a few blocks down the road, police said.

Officers responded at about 6:15 a.m. to a reported break-in at an apartment in the 1000 block of Cain Road.

Investigators said an apartment resident called 911 while someone was trying to get inside. Another resident shot at the intruder.

"While the 911 taker was still gathering information, one shot was heard and a female screaming," Fayetteville police spokesman Michael Bohannon said.



According to police, the intruder fled the scene, and the armed resident followed him to the intersection of Cain Road and Rogers Drive. A fight occurred, and more gunshots were fired.

The suspected intruder was shot multiple times and taken to Cape Fear Valley Medical Center, where he died. Police identified him as 40-year-old Cordell Spruill, who lived next door to the man who shot him.

Police said there were at least seven people inside the home when Spruill tried to break through the back door.

Neighbors said the shooting stemmed from an ongoing conflict between Spruill and his neighbors.

"It wasn't a burglar, you know. This guy has been terrorizing a couple of the neighbors here," neighbor Mark Irvin said, citing damage to cars and other property.



 

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@scottync In NC, it's illegal for a civilian to pursue an alleged criminal. NC does not have a citizen's arrest statute. When the perp fled the scene, the threat was over. This will probably not end well for the homeowner.
There is an actual law that states it's illegal to follow a criminal?
 

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I will sit on the fence on this one until I learn more of what happened at the scene of the fight/shooting. While it is illegal to break into someone's house, it is not illegal to chase that intruder down.
 
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@scottync In NC, it's illegal for a civilian to pursue an alleged criminal. NC does not have a citizen's arrest statute. When the perp fled the scene, the threat was over. This will probably not end well for the homeowner.
I sure would like to see the statute stating one cannot pursue a criminal, alleged or not. One cannot be a mobile good witness? One cannot trail the perp and report on same? No one under any circumstance can follow a perp under NC law? I need to see that statute. And do not confuse following/chasing with making a citizens arrest. They are not one and the same.
 

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@scottync In NC, it's illegal for a civilian to pursue an alleged criminal. NC does not have a citizen's arrest statute. When the perp fled the scene, the threat was over. This will probably not end well for the homeowner.
Yes and no. Check NC statute 15A-404. Detention of offenders by private persons. A private person may detain a person who has committed certain crimes in his presence, including theft and destruction of property. It is not considered an "arrest," but it is legal to detain until the cops get there. Also, chasing a suspect with the intent of just keeping track of their whereabouts until police can catch up to them is always legal. That is not even detention.

If all the shooter did was follow or detain and the perp attacked him with intent to inflict grave bodily harm, he may be in the clear. Again, I am not saying it was a good idea, it wasn't. But it really depends on details we don't have to determine if he is in trouble. As of a couple of hours ago, he had not been charged with anything. We shall see.
 

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@OldVet My CC instructor is/was a Deputy Sheriff. He specifically stated that a private citizen could not pursue a BG or make a citizen's arrest. That was many years ago, I don't know if he was mistaken or the laws have changed since.

@jmf552 is correct about detaining an alleged criminal until law enforcement arrives. But it has no mention of pursuit/following a suspect. I can't find any statute which allows it. He may be right, but it can get real iffy real fast.

I stand corrected about citizen's arrest (sort of).

NC Statute § 15A-405. Assistance to law-enforcement officers by private persons to effect arrest or prevent escape; benefits for private persons. "Private persons may assist law-enforcement officers in effecting arrests and preventing escapes from custody when requested to do so by the officer. When so requested, a private person has the same authority to effect an arrest or prevent escape from custody as the officer making the request. He does not incur civil or criminal liability for an invalid arrest unless he knows the arrest to be invalid."

It goes on to cover benefits of the assisting civilian.
 

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How mentally defective does one have to be to break into the house of your next door neighbor with whom you have an ongoing dispute, in daylight, and there are multiple people in the house? While I hope no laws were broken by the break-in victim, it seems like the gene pool benefited from an appropriate amount of bleach being applied.
 

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There’ll be more of this because good people are FED UP!
I certainly hope so. I still believe there are far more good people than bad. The good people just need to take control of the situation, especially now when you can't count on the police being able to do their jobs.
 

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"Private persons may assist law-enforcement officers in effecting arrests and preventing escapes from custody when requested to do so by the officer. When so requested, a private person has the same authority to effect an arrest or prevent escape from custody as the officer making the request. He does not incur civil or criminal liability for an invalid arrest unless he knows the arrest to be invalid."

Therein lies the rub.
 

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Followed/chased the intruder to the intersection doesn’t necessarily indicate a great distance. That intersection could be right outside the front/back door if the apartment building is situated on a corner lot.
 

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"Private persons may assist law-enforcement officers in effecting arrests and preventing escapes from custody when requested to do so by the officer. When so requested, a private person has the same authority to effect an arrest or prevent escape from custody as the officer making the request. He does not incur civil or criminal liability for an invalid arrest unless he knows the arrest to be invalid."

Therein lies the rub.
Also read 15A-404. There is an exception to the rub.
 

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"Private persons may assist law-enforcement officers in effecting arrests and preventing escapes from custody when requested to do so by the officer. When so requested, a private person has the same authority to effect an arrest or prevent escape from custody as the officer making the request. He does not incur civil or criminal liability for an invalid arrest unless he knows the arrest to be invalid."

Therein lies the rub.
If an officer yells, "Stop that man!" I consider that a request for assistance from the LEO and falling under the stated statute. That statute, however, states nothing about a citizen pursuing a suspect on one's own initiative.

15-404 allows "detainment" but not "arrest." Pursuit is not detainment, not until you physically stop a suspect and hold him from leaving.
 
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@Rock and Glock When I read all of NC Statute § 15A-405, my impression is that when an officer asks for assistance, they are de facto deputizing that person for that event. Granted, I'm not a lawyer just a guy with an IQ above room temperature.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Updated:

A man accused of shooting and killing his neighbor after an attempted break-in has been charged with manslaughter.

Justin Ryan Hepburn, 30, of Cain Road in Fayetteville, was charged with voluntary manslaughter in the Monday shooting death of Cordell Spruill, 40, who tried to break inside Hepburn's apartment. Hepburn was taken to the Cumberland County Detention Center and released on a $100,000 unsecured bond.

On Monday around 6:15 a.m., Fayetteville officers responded to a reported break-in at Hepburn's apartment in the 1000 block of Cain Road.

Investigators said an someone called 911 while Spruill was trying to get inside. Another resident shot at the intruder.

 

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I hear what you're saying from a purely logical/tactical point of view. However, I think it is a valid point ti say that if people start to feel they are being preyed upon more because the criminals know the police are no longer responding, people may start to take matters into their own hands. And it is a double whammy: Not only might someone think they have to go vigilante, they also may think the lack of police will allow them to get away with it.
I agree with you. Even more: in some situations now "shooting back" may be the only way to save your life and lives of your loved ones. However, at a later point you will be judged, without taking into account the "war zone" some of us live in now, but as if what you have done was done in civilized society based on law and order.

Bottom line: beware, and judge your actions as they will be judged in lawful society. Tough.
 
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