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http://www.phxnews.com/fullstory.php?article=22621

The National Association of Chiefs of Police released its 17th Annual Survey of Police Chiefs and Sheriffs and some of the survey findings are surprising and compelling...

Gun Control: With regard to private citizens owning firearms for sport or self-defense, 93.6 percent of the respondents supported civilian gun-ownership rights. Ninety-six percent of the police chiefs and sheriffs believe criminals obtain firearms from illegal sources and 92.2 percent revealed they hadn't arrested anyone for violation of the so-called "waiting period" laws. When asked if citizens concealed-weapons permits would reduce violent crime, 63.1 percent said yes.
 

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Yet the politicos will always claim the police are in favor of gun control. In 6.5 years on the job I have only worked with one cop that truly defined himself as a liberal democrat. There are some that aren't staunch gun rights people, but they are mainly those that never owned or used firearms prior to becoming a cop and only have their service weapon.
 

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The Gov and DOJ will have sheriffs and other law enforcement types advising them on gun control and like issues. There will also be some number of law enforcement who are 2d ammendment supporters. I am afraid the antigun law enforcement get listened by the head guys.
 

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FortyFive - much better figures than I might have guessed - it is encouraging. Pity maybe their ''voice'' is not that effective on our behalf - or just perhaps anti's choose not to listen - that'd be normal!
 

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Looking at those figures you have to wonder why there are still States that refuse to issue. Unless, they just like haveing high crime rate figures! :biggrin: (Look! My murder rate is higher than your's.... I WIN!!)
 

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CombatEffective, I an pleased that you will admit (in your above post) that all the cops that are dispatched to protect me at 0300 during a home invasion aren't as well trained as most of them want us to believe. Your statement should make us all(in this forum) really think about our response to violence directed at us or our families. "There are some that aren't staunch gun rights people,but they are mainly those that never owned or used firearms prior to becomeing a cop and only have(own?) their service weapon." These LEO's IMO are the ones that will not go out and shoot/practice on their own. They shoot ONLY enough during the year to barely qualify. Then they whine about having to do that.These are the LEO's that will tell us that we should not fight back. We should call 911 and take our family and hide in the closet until "help" arrives. We should not have loaded guns(weapons) in the house cuz we could hurt ourselves or our children. I realize that these LEO's are the minority in the LEO community but we need to be aware that they exist and could be dispatched to our(your) house in the middle of the night. With this said,I also freely admit that LEO's have a very tough job to do out on the streets of out cities. I would not want to have their job. Mainly cuz if I did I could not follow the chiefs orders(probably) and tell the public not to defend themselves.--------
 

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EUC, Don't know 'bout education, but would agree with the rest of your statement. I call it the 2% rule. I believe in ANY group,2% of the people will be "different"(for the lack of a unkinder word).---------
 

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RSSZ,

Quite a few of the officers in my department don't own any firearms at all. They only have the departmentally issued weapon. In my department of 70+ officers, there are 10 of us give or take that really know what we are doing with a firearm. Most of the others have a fairly good idea of what to do, but they really aren't interested in them. There is a good number that barely manage to qualify and have absolutely no clue what they are doing with a firearm.
 

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I wonder if CombatEffective is from the Northeast too!

A little personal background: I was a Reserve/Special PO for my town for 18 years, "retiring" in 1996 due to a massive change in policies for us (totally disarmed and arrest powers removed by current chief). There are only ~25 FT POs here in a town of 18K, but we used to have ~35 Reserve/Special POs that were trained (academy, CPR, First Responder and firearms) and available as needed (mostly for free to the town). I am now a Constable (for past 6 years) with full LE powers but don't work with or for the PD.

First of all, I've never heard of this national chiefs org. In MA we have the Mass Chiefs org (MCOPA) who have a LOT of political clout, have as a published agenda an anti-2nd Amendment policy (restrict/no guns for civilians, more anti-gun laws, etc.). MCOPA was officially against HR218 (allowing POs to carry in the entire US), does not endorse BUGs, does not endorse off-duty carry, write the curriculum for the official training academies, etc. Almost to a man, the Mass Chiefs are a bunch of "desk jockeys" who haven't been on the streets in at least 10 years . . . they have no clue what it is like for the rank and file officer out there.

Chiefs in MA are appointed by the local town/city government and serve at their pleasure, so if they don't do as they are told by their bosses (liberals), they are fired and out on their ear! This probably contributes to their anti-gun policies.

There is NO chapter of the union that proposed HR218 in the entire state of MA!

There is NO safety training in the police academy training (not when I took it and not that I'm aware of today) and the qualification is a joke (milk bottle targets while standing still).

I only knew one officer (now retired) in the entire PD that carried off-duty. Most officers don't know anything about the gun that they carry on duty and don't own any guns of their own, don't hunt, don't shoot except qualification 1x/year (100 rds - 50 practice and 50 for official qual).

I belong to one gun club (2700 members) where there is a high number (probably 2-300) of LEOs that belong. . .these are folks that actually shoot because they enjoy it or realize that their life may depend on it someday. They are the exception rather than the rule.

So, in MA when the police orgs (brass) are polled they are 100% anti-gun, anti-civilian gun ownership! And these are the folks that our legislators listen to for advise on creating new anti-gun laws.
 

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CombatEffective & LenS , Thanks for your very frank(and honest) post. I don't want to take away from anything that the brave,honest,and WELL TRAINED police officers in our cities and towns all across America are doing to protect us each and ever day.---- BUT---- I want the people that read and contribute to this forum to be totally aware that their safety and the safety of their family/loved ones is in their hands. Lets be ready to defend ourselves by any and all means legally possible. We need to be better trained than the rest,more aware than the rest,and have a better mindset than the rest. We owe that to ourselves and the families that we have the honor to protect.-------
 

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CombatEffective: Yes, it's not a job that I'd want to do FT! Policing here is largely report-taking, especially in the smaller communities. They don't have the resources to do any pro-active work unless it is grant-funded. No support from the brass and no money for improvements! When I moved to this town in 1974 (pop of 11K then) we had ~24 FT POs, but the Reserve/Special POs used to patrol on weekends (free), fill in when no FT wanted OT/details (paid), etc. Now we have 25 FT POs, pop of 18K, twice as many homes as 1974 and only ~4-6 Reserve POs (under a new program they started, mostly those on Civil Service list waiting for a FT slot) and mandated limit on OT/details so that a lot goes unfilled. Cost for events like 4th of July (20K on the beach for fireworks) due to OT (when ~30 of us used to work for free) is astronomical but they only use maybe 6-8 additional people (lots of unmanned barricades now).

As I was told some 20+ years ago when I first started working shifts, "it all counts for 20" . . . don't go looking for trouble, don't make arrests, etc.
 

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What a lot folks don't realize is just how thin police officers are stretched. In the county to the north of me, the sheriff's office is the only full time law enforcement agancy. Two of the towns in teh county maintain police departments that operate during certain hours but are not full time/full service. Another town contracts with the SO to have a deputy within the city limits during certain times of the day.

A patrol shift for the SO consists of 4 deputies and that is including the supervisor. Therefore, there is a good portion of the time that the county only has four law enforcement officers on duty, and that is if everyone on the shift is actually at work. The county is a rural county and covers a large land area. I have been riding along with a deputy friend there when we have had to run code (lights & sirens) for 20 minutes or more to get to a call. A lot can happen in that amount of time. As well all know, a lot can happen in 5 seconds or even less.

In my opnion, you can trust 911 if you want to. I don't, and I'm part of that system. You must be prepared to defend the lives that you hold dear yourself.
 

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In all fairness though- A policeman is not paid to be a gunfighter. I do not expect every officer to be a Gunsite Guru. There is so much to police work that I can't even conceive of doing I will not sit in judgment of any law enforcement professionals. I have no right to and that's not my place.

That said the blame lies squarely on the shoulders of a society that'll spend $50 million so that Tom Cruise will make another bad movie, but to spend $50,000 to put a department through a 4 hour pistol tactics course is unthinkable.

I shoot at the same range as a lot of LEOs. They bring their service pistols and shoot alongside me. We see each other in passing all the time. Most are members of the Glock Brigade. I often think about what an insane society we have where an educator who is not allowed to possess a firearm while at work has comparable skill to many in law enforcement who are required to have a firearm while at work.

I'll say this one thing... when you actually get into shooting and get serious about it, you learn that when it comes to old fashioned marksmanship and methodology anyone willing to can learn. That old sentiment you have to be military or LE to even thing about touching a firearm is like so much else a myth.
 

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My Memory Must Be Getting Worse

I seem to have this "Visual Image" stuck in my brain of all these hundreds of Chiefs Of Police Standing Up Beside & Supporting Bill Clinton. :confused:
Was that just a dream or a nightmare that I had? :confused:
 

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Discussion Starter #18
In all respect to my friend Euc, the PD's get to keep drug money, stuff they take, stuff they get during raids etc. The fed grants to update communications systems and we know how effective that was during Columbine. In short they may waste a great deal of money on systems not compatable with others etc. On the people side they are getting paid very well and retirement can run 100% or more of their pay. Our county will be faced with another financial problem because of retirement funds. In CA the CHP spikes their retirement using disability(???), that is being investigated. No, they get one hell of bundle in money every which way but how its spent is another issue.
 

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45, not everywhere!

In MA, all funds taken in by any municipality MUST go into "general funds" and then becomes part of next year's "pool" of available funds to pay to run the town/city.

Also due to Mass Gen'l Laws, most all of the funds available are used to pay for schools! In our town 70-75% of ALL monies go to the schools and the rest is divvied up amongst ALL the other town bills/departments.

Bottom line, there isn't much incentive here for "collecting money" (confiscations, tickets/fines/fees)! The PD usually won't see any of the increased funds.

I don't know how other states operate, but I know enough about how MA operates to understand why the PD and FD are the bastard children with nothing buy "maintenance" funding in their best years.
 

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My daprtment doesn't receive revenue from citations it issues much less asset seizures.

Euc has a good point about the cops not needing to be firearms gurus. Let's face teh fact that physical defense skills and physical fitness are probably more important, and I am sorely lacking in both of those areas.

As for communication issues, those are huge in LE and public safety. I can't speak directly to a sheriff's deputy or county police officer on the radio unless I get my dispatch to call their dispatch and request that a particular officer meet me on one of the mutual channels. I'm not sure if the fire department even has the mutual channel on their radios. I guess in the event of a Columbine type situation were we were working jointly we would all go to a mutual channel. That would only work for this county though. If I were to be out of this particular county, which does happen at times, I have no means of radio communucation with other agencies.
 
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