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So unless you have been in a coma. you have seen the news outta Minneapolis. Being a cop, I watched the video in it's entirety and agree, six minutes with a causal knee to the neck is waaaaay outta line, and I hope justice is served in the matter.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/armed-citizens-guard-stores-amid-looting-in-minneapolis-report

This post is not about that, but the reality of what we saw in the LA Riots after the Rodney King verdict. When the looting and rioting starts, the police will NOT be able to respond to your location when you're faced with machete wielding or firearms wielding looters kicking in either your business doors or your home, or throwing firebombs at your home, and the truth is that when you are armed, your friends are armed, and any other armed persons defending your lives and property are there, you have a chance. Disarmed? Think the massacres in South Africa of families disarmed by their government and killed by machete and gun wielding mobs.

Sadly, and what miffs me to untold heights, the reporter had to throw in there the "being armed may only make it worse" BS. Yeah, make it worse for the rioters and looters. Being a disarmed citizen only makes it tough for the coroners identifying your remains.

What times we have lived to see.....
 

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Lots of pent up anger. I saw a post about the police incident but didn't watch it. Lots of bad cops out there that should never even be a crossing guard. Lots of violent encounters with police officers that neglect to show what lead up to the incident. Without seeing or knowing what lead up to the incident, can't make an informed opinion one way or another on most of these videos.
 

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I look at it this way. And I do have a bias here and I will be upfront about it. This was inexcusable behavior and it happens all too frequently. This is not LEO bashing at all. But the fact is that a large amount of LEO's do not behave in a way that upholds the values that they suppose to support.

I am talking from simple everyday encounters where they lie and try to make you think you have to do certain things when you do not to events like this.

It is not a racial thing at all. I am an older white male and have had nothing but negative encounters with LE. I have only posted one encounter and there have been several others.

For example, mundane things like when my wife got stopped for "something". They said it was speeding but it was not. But that is another issue. Anyway, the LEO asked for my ID. I was a passenger. I refused. He said I had to ID. I told him not according to the law.

He knew exactly what the law was. He was thinking that citizens do not know their rights. This happens every day in America and it is wrong. Period. No discussion about "police tactics" and all that BS.

This does boil over.

I have seen on this forum and others where people want to take up arms and postulate the possibility of a Civil War because of the Government abuses of the 2A and 1A and 4A.

Well, rioting is not the answer. But I am here to tell you that no peaceful protest is going to stop LE abuse of their powers. The will keep doing it as long as police unions defend them

Do I hava solution? Yes. Sue the crap out of the cities and take away immunity from LE that are purposefully not doing their jobs correctly.
 

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My thoughts:
  • Don't live in big cities or bad suburbs if you can help it. Sure, not everyone has the choice and stuff can happen anywhere, but look where it typically does happen and think about what the life of your family is worth.
  • Don't live somewhere the police department has a bad reputation. Our county PD is top notch and I think that makes a difference. They are not likely to start such an incident, but they are capable of ending a riot if they have to. They are well trained and armed and they have cooperative agreements with all the surrounding departments.
  • Live in a politically conservative area if you can. It is a lot more likely honest citizens will be armed in that kind of area.
  • Be ready to defend your home with serious firepower. My choice is a 12 ga. pump, backed up with a 1911, but whatever floats your boat. Rioters come on my property with obvious bad intent, they will take fire. I will worry about the fallout afterwards.
 

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I will never understand the logic, if there is any, of rioters demolishing and looting the businesses that support their local communities. The frustration and need to vent in an attempt to accomplish a change is obvious.
But destroying the stores that bring commodities to their communities just makes little sense to me.

As for the LEOs, charges need to be filed asap. Then let them go through the system process. It's hard to know all the facts from a single phone video perspective but it does look like a death occurred that could have been prevented. It also baffles me that, in today's world and after all of the previous African American deaths caused by Police force that went too far or shouldn't have happened, that ANY cop on the streets would allow himself to end up in the position that these four have.

I certainly don't support disarming Cops or taking any of their duty or defense mechanisms away but, really, how much force is necessary to subdue someone when you have 3 assistants and multiple stun guns at your avail?

Then, of course, another issue is how the mindset of people on the street has ended up being such that they feel they have the personal authority to defy the instructions of a police officer, resist, and elevate the situation to the point of necessary force? If people would just do as they are asked and comply with the LEOs then escalation to a brawl might be avoided. What ever happened to Yes Sir, No Sir, Thank You Sir, Have a Safe Day. ?
 

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Lots of pent up anger. I saw a post about the police incident but didn't watch it. Lots of bad cops out there that should never even be a crossing guard. Lots of violent encounters with police officers that neglect to show what lead up to the incident. Without seeing or knowing what lead up to the incident, can't make an informed opinion one way or another on most of these videos.
In this case I don't think there's any doubt the cops, at the very least, screwed up badly. Here's my take:

-there's a lot of people who are justly very angry about what happened
-there's the criminal scumbag element that uses the disorder as an opportunity
-there's a cultural element of extreme left-wing tendencies that's blurring the distinction between the above groups

I'm not confident in the leadership, but so far they seem to be doing okay, acknowledging the wrong of what happened to the victim while bringing in state troopers and the Guard to keep order. We'll see how it plays out.

Funny, yesterday I decided to transition to my Shield for summertime, now I think I'll keep my full-size M&P on me for a while. Fortunately I have no reason to venture into the city proper.
 

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@Osprey: Your idea is great, but it has a huge limitation. According to a recent article in Reuters, "...a little-known legal doctrine called qualified immunity. This 50-year-old creation of the U.S. Supreme Court is meant to protect government employees from frivolous litigation. In recent years, however, it has become a highly effective shield in thousands of lawsuits seeking to hold cops accountable when they are accused of using excessive force."

There have been several SCOTUS and appellate decisions supporting this, but the big case is Harlow v Fitzgerald, SCOTUS 1982. It says, "Government officials performing discretionary functions generally are shielded from liability for civil damages insofar as their conduct does not violate clearly established statutory or constitutional rights of which a reasonable person would have known." Now we all think that would give plaintiffs a case in situations like we are discussing, but the defense always has a counter-argument and that doctrine has allowed LE to get away with a LOT over the years.
 

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The wrong people are angry. Taxpayers should be angry. Not the freeloading didn’t do noth’n welfare crowd. Because they have never done anything. No contribution to society.

The wrong folks are angry.
 

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In this case I don't think there's any doubt the cops, at the very least, screwed up badly. Here's my take:

-there's a lot of people who are justly very angry about what happened
-there's the criminal scumbag element that uses the disorder as an opportunity
-there's a cultural element of extreme left-wing tendencies that's blurring the distinction between the above groups

I'm not confident in the leadership, but so far they seem to be doing okay, acknowledging the wrong of what happened to the victim while bringing in state troopers and the Guard to keep order. We'll see how it plays out.

Funny, yesterday I decided to transition to my Shield for summertime, now I think I'll keep my full-size M&P on me for a while. Fortunately I have no reason to venture into the city proper.
Do you live in the MSP 'burbs? It looks pretty bad in MSP proper from the national news outlets, but often the locals have a better take on the situation.
 

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I look at it this way. And I do have a bias here and I will be upfront about it. This was inexcusable behavior and it happens all too frequently. This is not LEO bashing at all. But the fact is that a large amount of LEO's do not behave in a way that upholds the values that they suppose to support.

I am talking from simple everyday encounters where they lie and try to make you think you have to do certain things when you do not to events like this.

It is not a racial thing at all. I am an older white male and have had nothing but negative encounters with LE. I have only posted one encounter and there have been several others.

For example, mundane things like when my wife got stopped for "something". They said it was speeding but it was not. But that is another issue. Anyway, the LEO asked for my ID. I was a passenger. I refused. He said I had to ID. I told him not according to the law.

He knew exactly what the law was. He was thinking that citizens do not know their rights. This happens every day in America and it is wrong. Period. No discussion about "police tactics" and all that BS.

This does boil over.

I have seen on this forum and others where people want to take up arms and postulate the possibility of a Civil War because of the Government abuses of the 2A and 1A and 4A.

Well, rioting is not the answer. But I am here to tell you that no peaceful protest is going to stop LE abuse of their powers. The will keep doing it as long as police unions defend them

Do I hava solution? Yes. Sue the crap out of the cities and take away immunity from LE that are purposefully not doing their jobs correctly.
Suing doesn’t do anything to police. You’re essentially going after the tax payers for the police departments actions.
 

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Suing doesn’t do anything to police. You’re essentially going after the tax payers for the police departments actions.
Which will in theory (possibly, maybe, who knows) force the police department to make the LEO's accountable for their actions and stop letting the Police Unions give them a bye for infractions.

I also did mention remove qualified immunity for police that do actions that they know are wrong. I am not talking about mistakes or not knowing the nuances of the law and they are upholding the law in good faith.

I am talking about the blatant disregard for procedures and for not following the law when it is obvious.

For example: One gets stopped at 5 AM on a jog. LEO says he wants to see ID and that there was a robbery a few blocks away. You tell him no. He tells you that you have to provide ID when requested under the law. Then you tell him that is BS, which it is. In this situation, the LEO is hoping that the person does not know the law. The LEO is purposefully detaining a person without explaining a reasonbel reason why and is wrongly lying about the law.

This officer needs to be reprimanded. But guess, what...he was not.

I am not talking about oopsies. We all make mistakes. I am talking about LEO's lying to get the information they are not allowed to have under the law and hoping the public is too stupid to know about the law.

Happened once when my wife got stopped driving. LEO wanted to see my ID. He told me it was required as a passenger. I told him BS. Again, unless the Police Unions get reeled in, this will never stop.
 

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I look at it this way. And I do have a bias here and I will be upfront about it. This was inexcusable behavior and it happens all too frequently. This is not LEO bashing at all. But the fact is that a large amount of LEO's do not behave in a way that upholds the values that they suppose to support.

I am talking from simple everyday encounters where they lie and try to make you think you have to do certain things when you do not to events like this.

It is not a racial thing at all. I am an older white male and have had nothing but negative encounters with LE. I have only posted one encounter and there have been several others.

For example, mundane things like when my wife got stopped for "something". They said it was speeding but it was not. But that is another issue. Anyway, the LEO asked for my ID. I was a passenger. I refused. He said I had to ID. I told him not according to the law.

He knew exactly what the law was. He was thinking that citizens do not know their rights. This happens every day in America and it is wrong. Period. No discussion about "police tactics" and all that BS.

This does boil over.

I have seen on this forum and others where people want to take up arms and postulate the possibility of a Civil War because of the Government abuses of the 2A and 1A and 4A.

Well, rioting is not the answer. But I am here to tell you that no peaceful protest is going to stop LE abuse of their powers. The will keep doing it as long as police unions defend them

Do I hava solution? Yes. Sue the crap out of the cities and take away immunity from LE that are purposefully not doing their jobs correctly.
Suing the cities (or counties) is just going to punish law abiding taxpayers who will pay increased taxes to pay for litigation. Not sure what you mean by taking away immunity from LE! LEO's and Agencies can and do get sued all the time! Back when I was a corrections officer at a Florida State Prison I was sued by an inmate who was transferred to another facility because he lost his state-issued sweat pants during his transfer. He did not win but we still had to go to court and that cost the taxpayers quite a bit of money on a frivolous lawsuit.
 

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It only takes one person to start a riot or looting. Maybe an outside agitator or just a very angry local person or as from another thread a person with evil intentions. Once started the crowd mentality of "me too" gets people joining in. Could be blocking streets or burning cars or looting or worse. If there is pent up anger it only takes one to get the ball rolling. What is bad it that we will never know if this was from one outside agitator or just a very angry local person.
 

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The rioting last night had nothing to do with any protest against the police, it was pure atavistic greed. There is no higher purpose in smashing windows and collecting as many big screen TVs as you can.

There were protesters on the scene who were genuinely voicing their concerns and 1st Amendment rights, those I have no problem with at all. They weren't involved in the destruction, at least from what I could see watching the news videos.

There was also a group that were politically motivated and yelling obscenities at Trump and his supporters. They may have been Antifa members out doing what they always do. Of course now that masks are mandatory, their jobs are so much easier.
 

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These people got stuff handed to them for free which they then trashed as they had no real investment in it. Now they know that if they burn down their neighborhood the liberal government will just build them a newer and nicer neighborhood. So what have they got to loose?

Then there is the group that just sees a chance to get some free stuff by ransacking and looting. Watch the video of them looting the Target store. Ironically if my memory is correct Target is headquartered in Minneapolis.
 

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Which will in theory (possibly, maybe, who knows) force the police department to make the LEO's accountable for their actions and stop letting the Police Unions give them a bye for infractions.

I also did mention remove qualified immunity for police that do actions that they know are wrong. I am not talking about mistakes or not knowing the nuances of the law and they are upholding the law in good faith.

I am talking about the blatant disregard for procedures and for not following the law when it is obvious.

For example: One gets stopped at 5 AM on a jog. LEO says he wants to see ID and that there was a robbery a few blocks away. You tell him no. He tells you that you have to provide ID when requested under the law. Then you tell him that is BS, which it is. In this situation, the LEO is hoping that the person does not know the law. The LEO is purposefully detaining a person without explaining a reasonbel reason why and is wrongly lying about the law.

This officer needs to be reprimanded. But guess, what...he was not.

I am not talking about oopsies. We all make mistakes. I am talking about LEO's lying to get the information they are not allowed to have under the law and hoping the public is too stupid to know about the law.

Happened once when my wife got stopped driving. LEO wanted to see my ID. He told me it was required as a passenger. I told him BS. Again, unless the Police Unions get reeled in, this will never stop.
You're missing the point. Police get their money from taxes. You want to sue them, but will complain when your taxes go up pay for the lawsuit.
 

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You're missing the point. Police get their money from taxes. You want to sue them, but will complain when your taxes go up pay for the lawsuit.
I don't pay property tax. I am excluded as a disabled vet in TX :) So, no, I will not complain.
 

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Well, does anyone else have a solution? I at least presented mine. What can be done to keep police in check and to make sure they are punished not only for the major incidents like we are talking about, but for the daily abuses of power, no matter how small?

I have always been anti-union. Not just police unions. But I think Police Unions are a train wreck.
 

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Personally, I believe that NO public employees of any type should be allowed union coverage. Why should they?

Eliminate the unions in public places, watch the abuses disappear. Hold the public employers to be good employers and compete for good employees and have at it.

No union.

The Mnpls situation? The mayor fanned flames too. The cop(s) look guilty as hell.

It is going to be a long hot summer.
 
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