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Discussion Starter #1
This showed up in Grant Cunningham's "Hump Day" newsletter today. I think it is timely because we have had a lot of discussions about the millions of new gun owners this year and have they gotten "training." But what should we mean by training? Just loading, firing and safe handling? Is that enough? These recommendations are based on Werner's study of five years of incidents reported in the NRA's "Armed Citizen" column. IIRC, they are based on about 450 incidents that were well documented, successful, civilian defensive gun uses. As you probably know, Werner's background is very impressive.

CAVEAT: He is NOT saying here that this is all everyone should train on, or that it is not worthwhile to train on other things. So if you think 50 yard head shots or tactical back flips are important, he is not contradicting you. He is just suggesting that if you wanted a syllabus to teach people the basics of what made these 450 or so DGUs successful, these should be included. The percentages are the percent of cases where that skill was a factor. These are not intended to add up to 100%. Some incidents used multiple skills.
  • Retrieve from Storage (handgun) - 32%. The question is how often is this emphasized in training? Almost never. I would say it is never practiced in training, yet it is the most often used skill.
  • Move safely from place to place at ready - 22%. Some advanced courses do this. Perhaps it should be considered a basic skill in every course. In real situations, people are not standing in a shooting lane at a range. This could be practiced with dummy guns, if necessary.
  • Draw to shoot - 20%. Again, advanced courses only.
  • Challenge from ready - 15%. This includes justified brandishing and verbal engagement strategies to possibly not have to shoot. Some may say they would never do this, but in 15% of actual incidents studied, this came into play.
  • Intervene in another’s situation - 15%. I think he is talking about knowing the legalities. I think most courses, even advanced, don't teach this. I see a lot of misconceptions about this on forums.
  • Draw to challenge - 12%. The first step of "Challenge from ready"
  • Engage from ready (handgun) - 12%. This is taught in most courses, so that is good.
  • Hold at gunpoint until police arrive - 12%. Again, legalities. Doing this is not always a good idea. It is a subject rarely discussed in training at any length.
  • Shoot with non-threats downrange - 10%. In other words, what might you hit if you missed your target. This gets mentioned in training, but not really practiced.
  • Reload - 0%. That's right, never needed in the incidents he studied, with one exception. A guy in Asia had to reload his .32 auto to take down an escaped tiger, which he did after 13 rounds. But for our purposes, zero. That is not to say reloading could not be a factor. It is not to say it should not be practiced. But for non-LEOs, it is rare.
Anyhow, I thought it was an interesting perspective. The weaknesses I see of this analysis are: 1) These were only successful DGUs. I think there would be a lot to be learned from unsuccessful ones also. AND 2) It is just a straight statistical analysis. I would be interested in the extent to which accuracy and caliber came into play. For, that Greg Ellifritiz' study of handgun stopping power in real shootings is a good reference.
 

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Good perspective on the factors that influence a situation. It does give one some food for thought for one's situation and how things might influence a self defense outcome.
 

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Because we're all gun people here and certainly agree that training is at least a good idea, we can't even agree what level of training is sufficient. Not everybody can be or should be a Rambo with a handgun, but I'd like to see everyone be able to handle a gun with shooting themselves or someone else unintentionally.
 

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I have been getting a few calls for basic handling of long guns from first time panic buyers.
(Handguns require a lengthy licensing and are not prone to impulse buying )
And some are an interesting bunch.
Such as my friends student who is 73 woman and was sold a Rossi .44 magnum lever action.
Or my current student who is a 62 year old female and bought a Remington pump action Turkey .410.
None of these guns are ideal for either of these ladies who would, IMHO, be better off with a pistol caliber semi auto carbine.
These are indeed strange times we are in.
 

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Sometimes you just have to go with what you have. Not ideal - but real.
 
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Discussion Starter #8
I have read and studied Tom Given's research on civilian involved gunfights. I find that that the training priorities that he has listed, are as good as anyone's for prioritizing their defensive pistol training.

Check out the feature story on page 3. What's Your Training Priority

I'm sure his advice is great, if anyone can wade through it. Having one of my masters in communications, spent most of my career in that field and having been the editor of an internationally circulated magazine, I can say that is the absolutely the worst newsletter layout I have ever seen. If he hires someone to do that, he should replace them. If he does it himself, he should hire someone.
 

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I have been getting a few calls for basic handling of long guns from first time panic buyers.
(Handguns require a lengthy licensing and are not prone to impulse buying )
And some are an interesting bunch.
Such as my friends student who is 73 woman and was sold a Rossi .44 magnum lever action.
Or my current student who is a 62 year old female and bought a Remington pump action Turkey .410.
None of these guns are ideal for either of these ladies who would, IMHO, be better off with a pistol caliber semi auto carbine.
These are indeed strange times we are in.
While not the best choices, those are far from the worst. The .44 Magnum levergun can be loaded with .44 Special for a surprisingly mild shooting rifle. And she may have better luck finding .44Spl now than 9mm or .45ACP.

The .410 is nothing to sneeze at....especially when loaded with OOO Buck. And the recoil is pretty mild compared to other shotguns. Plus, .410 ammo is still available.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
 

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While not the best choices, those are far from the worst. The .44 Magnum levergun can be loaded with .44 Special for a surprisingly mild shooting rifle. And she may have better luck finding .44Spl now than 9mm or .45ACP.

The .410 is nothing to sneeze at....especially when loaded with OOO Buck. And the recoil is pretty mild compared to other shotguns. Plus, .410 ammo is still available.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
I agree with the 410 but the actual gun is way too long for her.
 

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I agree with the 410 but the actual gun is way too long for her.
My Mossberg .410 currently has a 24" barrel. I plan to get it shortened to 20" soon to make it handier. Any competent gunsmith should be able to handle that job with little expense.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
 
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