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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone ever been told or heard that having more than one settlors/primary trustee on a gun trust can cause problems w/ BATF re: 41F? Could this be related to the coming rule changes on July 13th or nonsense?

This particular law firm does not recommend drafting trusts w/ more than one settlor. This is a reputable law firm, per recommendations, but I have not read/been told this before by other potential lawyers or from folks w/ a trust. Just curious. Thanks.

My apology if my post is out of bounds in the FFL thread.
 

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I havent talked with a lawyer but my dealer told me that with the new law coming out soon, that an estate wouldnt be very beneficial.. But, this guy is not a lawyer. Sorry, cant help you much.
 

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Yeah, I think some of the pluses of a trust disappear when the new rules kick in on July 13th. At that time, my understanding is fingerprints & photos will be required. Getting a LE signature won't be, but notification of one's NFA stamp will be. I wonder if a postcard will do :rolleyes:?

The main (and worthwhile) benefit for me is the kids. I want all firearms, especially NFA items, to avoid probate; in addition, trusts are harder to challenge & more ironclad if done correctly.

The good news is all 3 firms I've contacted can have a trust completed for me before the 13th. As long as class II paperwork is postmarked/submitted to BATF before the 13th, the old rules apply, per my understanding. No fingerprints, notification etc.

With all the goings-on in the world, I figure now is a great time to get a SBR, SBS, or whatever, while I can, w/ the least amount of hoops. None were on the top of my list, but they are now. Maybe build a SBR?
 

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Yeah, I think some of the pluses of a trust disappear when the new rules kick in on July 13th. At that time, my understanding is fingerprints & photos will be required. Getting a LE signature won't be, but notification of one's NFA stamp will be. I wonder if a postcard will do :rolleyes:?

The main (and worthwhile) benefit for me is the kids. I want all firearms, especially NFA items, to avoid probate; in addition, trusts are harder to challenge & more ironclad if done correctly.

The good news is all 3 firms I've contacted can have a trust completed for me before the 13th. As long as class II paperwork is postmarked/submitted to BATF before the 13th, the old rules apply, per my understanding. No fingerprints, notification etc.

With all the goings-on in the world, I figure now is a great time to get a SBR, SBS, or whatever, while I can, w/ the least amount of hoops. None were on the top of my list, but they are now. Maybe build a SBR?
Like you, I'm ready to sign for a trust. I spoke with a firm in South Florida regarding the changes starting July 13. If I understand correctly, items purchased prior to July 13 will be under the current law/trust. Items purchased after July 13 will require the buyer to notify the local sheriff about the purchase even if your trust was issued prior to July 13, 2016. Is that your understanding?
 
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Discussion Starter #7
Like you, I'm ready to sign for a trust. I spoke with a firm in South Florida regarding the changes starting July 13. If I understand correctly, items purchased prior to July 13 will be under the current law/trust. Items purchased after July 13 will require the buyer to notify the local sheriff about the purchase even if your trust was issued prior to July 13, 2016. Is that your understanding?
Yep, that's my understanding too.

I'm still not clear on who must submit fingerprints & photos after July 13th. Just the settlor(s)/primary trustees or do co-trustees have to as well even though they're not entitled to purchase under the trust?

I'll ask one of the lawyers, but thought many here are just as knowledgeable.
 

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Yep, that's my understanding too.

I'm still not clear on who must submit fingerprints & photos after July 13th. Just the settlor(s)/primary trustees or do co-trustees have to as well even though they're not entitled to purchase under the trust?

I'll ask one of the lawyers, but thought many here are just as knowledgeable.
I may be wrong but I think that after July 13 any new applications for a trust and any item purchased under the trust will require fingerprinting and photos.
 
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I may be wrong but I think that after July 13 any new applications for a trust and any item purchased under the trust will require fingerprinting and photos.
Yes, your right. Fingerprints and photos are required after the 13th, but I believe they will also be required of all persons on the trusts except beneficiaries.

Going back to my original question in the 1st post, I'm wondering if photos & prints are related to why one lawyer said no to multiple settlors/primary trustees? On the other hand, that doesn't make sense (he'said out of office until Fri).

If I'm the only settlor on the trust but have a co-trustee who can use & be in possession of the NFA item but has no purchase power under the trust, do they also have to submit photos & prints? I think they do :mad:
 

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I dont know that that guy is talking about.

I see Firearms Trusts everyday. Not one of them ever had just one member on them.

I have sent several hundred Form 4's along with TRUSTs to the ATF and never had an issue with them other than the title of the trust was not exactly the same of the F4 as it was the trust.

They will kick it back for that. Mispellings, not puting an "S" on "TRUSTS" when it is there, or putting a "S" on TRUST when it is not there.


It sounds like your firm that does Trusts is using the same rules for a gun trust and they are not quite the same thing.
 

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If I'm the only settlor on the trust but have a co-trustee who can use & be in possession of the NFA item but has no purchase power under the trust, do they also have to submit photos & prints? I think they do
Not until July 13 th.

Until then no fingerprints/photos are required.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I think I may be confusing everyone by using interchangeable terms. I didn't mean to imply I would create a trust w/ just myself on it & neither were any of the law firms I spoke with.

Any trust should have trustee(s) & beneficiaries; however, not all gun trusts have more than 1 settlor/grantor/primary trustee (person creating & controlling the trust).

2 of 3 firms I've discussed this with said some choose to have more than 1 grantor/settlor and others choose to have a grantor and a trustee. For example, Some married couples create one together (2 grantors) while others choose to have one settlor/grantor w/ the other spouse or parent of the beneficiaries being the trustee.

I was just wondering why one of 3 does not recommend have 2 grantors? He advises the trust have 1 grantor/ primary trustee and then naming 1 or more co-trustees. The co-trustees can not amend the trust (unless the creator dies or is incapacitated) and can not apply for a NFA stamp under the trust.

All 3 lawyers come w/ references, provide 100% guarantee there will be no issue w/ BATFE due to their trusts, and claim none of their many trusts have ever been rejected.

Sorry if I wasn't being clear. It's not a big deal. I was just curious about the differing opinion & can ask the guy on Friday. Thanks.
 

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I had my trust done by Silencer Shop before I purchased my first can, it has worked well and will suit the purpose of the trust. After the 13th I will simply go to a participating member (Powered by) shop and use their kiosk to upload my fingerprints and picture, and the co-trustees can do so as well. I know its a shameless plug for a specific shop, but they have treated me VERY well.:35:
 

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We got our Gun Trust and submitted our paperwork for 2 cans last week and received by ATF ... now the wait begins.
Both the Shop and the lawyer confirmed that after 13 July, whether you get a trust before or after the 13th, we still need to submit fingerprints and photo afterwards. So, we decided to get 2 cans and hopefully not have to deal with the new requirements in near future.
 
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