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Like anti-gunners everywhere, go ahead and blame the inherently-dangerous gun...
That's not being anti-gun. That is understanding the science of systems safety, something very few gun owners understand. Most gun owners think "the four rules of safety" and "keep your booger hook off the bang switch" is all you need. Those are the dumbed-down versions.
 

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That's not being anti-gun. That is understanding the science of systems safety, something very few gun owners understand. Most gun owners think "the four rules of safety" and "keep your booger hook off the bang switch" is all you need. Those are the dumbed-down versions.
OK, what are the original, smarter versions?
 

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OK, what are the original, smarter versions?
Systems safety is a field of study that fills many books and courses, so any explanation I could give here is an oversimplification. But briefly, you could say systems safety looks at everything about a system from beginning to end, from design, though manufacture, through training and standards for use, through actual safety history in use. If there are persistent mishaps with a system, that whole chain is examined to find out what went wrong. If it is operator error, but multiple operators have made the same error, other parts of the safety chain have to be looked at.

That is the approach the military, and aviation, takes with everything and I have professional experience with both. To put it very simply, it is applying Murphy's Law to every aspect of a system. With a gun, if people keep having similar NDs, yes, it is those gun carriers' faults, but blaming them does not increase safety. Looking at the design of the gun, training with that gun, accessories, etc. in relation to the NDs and making corrections improves safety.

I will also say that the goal of systems safety is zero mishaps, or at least six sigma, which would be 99.99966% safe.
 

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Luckily, here in CO "Codes of Conduct" are not laws themselves.

Let me guess- a non-manual safety striker gun with a "great trigger"... :hand1:
Why do you ask? Are striker guns with great triggers going off by themselves while carried in a proper holster?

I suggest that improper handling of a firearm is dangerous regardless of platform.
 

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That's not being anti-gun. That is understanding the science of systems safety, something very few gun owners understand. Most gun owners think "the four rules of safety" and "keep your booger hook off the bang switch" is all you need. Those are the dumbed-down versions.
By 1996, glock has sold 1 million pistols. If just 1 in 4 carries one, that's 250K being carried. Number of ND's with glocks are unlikely to be more than 3-4K in that time frame, making human errors with a striker around .004%. Make it 8K ND's, thats only .008%. IOW, statistically insignificant..

It may be a striker fired firearm that was evidenced, but it's human error and not the "system" that's the culprit.
 

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By 1996, glock has sold 1 million pistols. If just 1 in 4 carries one, that's 250K being carried. Number of ND's with glocks are unlikely to be more than 3-4K in that time frame, making human errors with a striker around .004%. Make it 8K ND's, thats only .008%. IOW, statistically insignificant..

It may be a striker fired firearm that was evidenced, but it's human error and not the "system" that's the culprit.
Striker-fired guns were used by fourteen of the seventeen students in the class I attended yesterday. Every student was a licensed carrier. I would guess the overall percentage among carriers is similar.
 

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By 1996, glock has sold 1 million pistols. If just 1 in 4 carries one, that's 250K being carried. Number of ND's with glocks are unlikely to be more than 3-4K in that time frame, making human errors with a striker around .004%. Make it 8K ND's, thats only .008%. IOW, statistically insignificant..

It may be a striker fired firearm that was evidenced, but it's human error and not the "system" that's the culprit.
It may be statistically insignificant to you, but not to safety experts. They would need .0034% (six sigma), so less than half your number.
 

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It may be statistically insignificant to you, but not to safety experts. They would need .0034% (six sigma), so less than half your number.
And if the ND's actually only amount to 2K, then that's well within the .0034 you're speaking to at .002. As I only guessed, and guessed high, it may well be within safety experts criteria. Still an insignificant number.

As very few carriers are likely to be safety experts, the numbers ARE insignificant to the vast majority of those who carry a Glock or any striker fired pistol. :wink:
 

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And if the ND's actually only amount to 2K, then that's well within the .0034 you're speaking to at .002. As I only guessed, and guessed high, it may well be within safety experts criteria. Still an insignificant number.
Well you can make anything significant or insignificant if you make up the numbers out of thin air (aka "guess"). That is not at all what I'm talking about.
 

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It is amazing how much time we spend speculating over a very short, uninformative article about a guy who manages somehow to have GSW in his leg.
 

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Well you can make anything significant or insignificant if you make up the numbers out of thin air (aka "guess"). That is not at all what I'm talking about.
What we're talking about is ND with striker fired pistols. I don't believe numbers of ND's with striker fired guns is even recorded anywhere, so one would have to guess. BUT, some people, like yourself, who carry a revo with a long heavy DA trigger pull seem to portray ND's with striker fired guns as abnormally high. When compared to revolvers, that may be true.

People do NOT have ND's because they are carrying striker fired pistols. They have ND's because, well, they were negligent or handled the gun improperly. The wild card in all this isn't the ignition system of any firearm, it's the carrier. To suggest otherwise [ it's the ignition system not the shooter ] seems odd.

IMO, there's more numb nuts carrying guns than there are people who've mastered a pistol. It's their right to be a numb nut and carry a pistol, the two don't make very good bed fellows.
 

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It is amazing how much time we spend speculating over a very short, uninformative article about a guy who manages somehow to have GSW in his leg.
"We"???
 
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Regardless of the buts, caveats and disclaimers, the number of scenarios that result in an AD/ND with the typical safetyless striker gun is significantly higher than a DA gun or safety locked gun. It's not really open to discussion- 3/8 inch of deflection at 5 lb is easier to occur than 3/4 inch at 10 lb. Sure, training and holster selection can help to mitigate that risk, but Mr. Murphy will find a way, so why make his job easier? You may consider yourself Mr. Tier 1 Superoperator with your striker gun (until you aren't), but the Average Joe is probably better served with a true DAO that he can shove into a Uncle Mike's pocket holster. I would surmise that that the rate AD/ND amongst carriers is similar to the rate of actually discharging a concealed weapon in a true encounter.
 

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What is significant? The fact that they already call it Glock leg means it is a reoccurring problem. I've always loved good triggers and have had a few of my firearms worked on. But when it came time for a carry gun, I chose safety and went dao with a Sig P250. I also chose the Ruger LCP Custom over their new LCP2 because of the trigger along with a revolver. I would have loved to have bought one of the many striker fires weapons, but simply chose not to.

We can minimize the problem by calling it negligent instead of accidental, and most times that is exactly what it is, but when you take into account than there may be a situation out there where that lighter trigger may go off unintentionally, I just don't want to carry that design.
 

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What is significant? The fact that they already call it Glock leg means it is a reoccurring problem. I've always loved good triggers and have had a few of my firearms worked on. But when it came time for a carry gun, I chose safety and went dao with a Sig P250. I also chose the Ruger LCP Custom over their new LCP2 because of the trigger along with a revolver. I would have loved to have bought one of the many striker fires weapons, but simply chose not to.

We can minimize the problem by calling it negligent instead of accidental, and most times that is exactly what it is, but when you take into account than there may be a situation out there where that lighter trigger may go off unintentionally, I just don't want to carry that design.
I'll put Glock leg in the same catagory as cop killer bullets, Saturday Night Specials, military-grade civilian assault weapons, common-sense gun restrictions, gun show loopholes, and a myriad of other examples of loaded language.
 

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Revolver with a HAIRless TRIGGER is my GUESS!!!!!!!
What???

So you think he cocked a DA or SA revolver and then had the ND, or was he carrying a revolver with the hammer cocked all along?
 
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