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Concealed Carry on Campus: MI
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Mich. colleges rethink campus safety; bill would OK concealed weapons
Michigan's public universities are beefing up their campus police forces, installing high-resolution surveillance cameras and taking other steps to prevent campus crime.
After the massacres at Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois in 2007 and 2008, colleges refocused their safety approaches with mass alert systems and emergency preparedness plans.
But the Detroit Free Press reports that campuses have also been retooling how they keep students safe from day-to-day crime.
Many colleges now have mounted surveillance cameras that can pan an entire campus while also zooming onto a single license plate.
As students return for fall classes and freshmen adjust to life away from home, college police say that staying safe often requires little more than using some common sense.
Bill would OK concealed weapons at Mich. campuses
A state lawmaker wants to let Michigan residents who have permits to carry concealed weapons take them on university campuses.
Legislation announced Thursday by Republican state Sen. Randy Richardville of Monroe would remove college campuses from the list of places where Michigan law does not allow permit holders to carry guns.
Richardville says crimes occur on college campuses just like in other places. He argues people with the proper training and background checks to get a permit should be allowed to carry guns for their protection while on campus.
The bill will face opposition from groups including the President's Council. The organization representing the presidents of Michigan's public universities says the measure won't make campuses safer.
Michigan's public universities are beefing up their campus police forces, installing high-resolution surveillance cameras and taking other steps to prevent campus crime.
After the massacres at Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois in 2007 and 2008, colleges refocused their safety approaches with mass alert systems and emergency preparedness plans.
But the Detroit Free Press reports that campuses have also been retooling how they keep students safe from day-to-day crime.
Many colleges now have mounted surveillance cameras that can pan an entire campus while also zooming onto a single license plate.
As students return for fall classes and freshmen adjust to life away from home, college police say that staying safe often requires little more than using some common sense.
Bill would OK concealed weapons at Mich. campuses
A state lawmaker wants to let Michigan residents who have permits to carry concealed weapons take them on university campuses.
Legislation announced Thursday by Republican state Sen. Randy Richardville of Monroe would remove college campuses from the list of places where Michigan law does not allow permit holders to carry guns.
Richardville says crimes occur on college campuses just like in other places. He argues people with the proper training and background checks to get a permit should be allowed to carry guns for their protection while on campus.
The bill will face opposition from groups including the President's Council. The organization representing the presidents of Michigan's public universities says the measure won't make campuses safer.
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I just heard it on the news. Just like you two, I don't visit campus' but would completely support the bill.
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I taught for many years at a Michigan law school, I won't publicly state which, still have an office there and still visit quite often.
About a year ago, when I walked in the front entrance I noticed a new desk had been put up behind which were two "security guards." I was curious so asked them if they were armed, to which they repled that they were not.
I should also add that School policy prohibits faculty or students to have guns on campus, even those with concealed carry permits.
Later, I called the Dean and asked about the new guards, told him that I understood that they were not armed and what purpose did he think they were serving.
Not surprising, he really had no answer that made any sense to me. Basically, if they were still alive, they could, I guess, call 911.
About a year ago, when I walked in the front entrance I noticed a new desk had been put up behind which were two "security guards." I was curious so asked them if they were armed, to which they repled that they were not.
I should also add that School policy prohibits faculty or students to have guns on campus, even those with concealed carry permits.
Later, I called the Dean and asked about the new guards, told him that I understood that they were not armed and what purpose did he think they were serving.
Not surprising, he really had no answer that made any sense to me. Basically, if they were still alive, they could, I guess, call 911.
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However, it seems this bill simply makes it so it's not a crime to CCW on campus, it doesn't prohibit the individual school from creating it's own policy. Most states don't prohibit CCW on campus, but with few exceptions, almost all schools' policy is no CCW.
Utah is the exception, where it MUST be allowed.
Utah is the exception, where it MUST be allowed.
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It isn't a crime on campus except MI State and U of MI.
Public schools are not private property.
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true, but the powers that be can create policies that affect students and employees. Joe blow off the street would be unaffected by such policies.
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Can anybody confirm this?
A local private college of mine has a no-weapons policy for its students (I believe/assume employees too). I am neither a student nor an employee of this college. They do not have any no-firearms/weapons signs posted. I asked the security office about CC'ing on their campus (of course not in dorms/classrooms, or for that matter not in any of the buildings) and they didn't really have a straight answer. The best they could give me was "It's against our student policy" and that if I was ever caught CC'ing on campus it would guarantee I'd never be accepted as a student there (no worry there) but they weren't really sure on it further.
I suppose I could try and get more info on this, but haven't gotten to that mess yet.
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I work at a University and can assure you that they can and would fire me if I so much as had a firearm in my vehicle in the parking structure. A student would likewise be expelled. However, MI law says only that it is illegal to carry in a classroom or dormitory, neither of which I ever enter. The common and admin buildings, the courtyards and rest of the campus..well, they have other policies that make it clear that this is public land and they cannot exclude joe public from common areas. (Specifically came up because people wanted homeless people banned from the libraries, turns out that they cannot ban them. they do however, shoo them if they are sleeping or doing anything other than using library resources, so they do mostly stay away because they mostly come in to sleep). They cannot charge a student or employee with a crime for carrying (except classrooms or dormitories), only expell or fire them. They have no means to expel or fire joe public, as joe public 1. has not signed an agreement to workplace/school policies and 2. has no job or education to lose, and is not committing a crime.
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Here is the policy for the college I go to. So it is legal for me to have my firearm on me in the parking lot because parking lots legally are not premises in Michigan but the college set its own rules regarding that and other areas.
WEAPONS POLICY
It is the policy of Muskegon Community College that no person employed by the College or any student or visitor to College buildings, facilities, vehicles, grounds and other College property shall possess a weapon and/or dangerous weapon in a College building, on College grounds, during a College-sponsored activity, or during such times as students are under the supervision of College authorities. “Weapons and/or dangerous weapons” is defined to include firearms and weapons as defined in USC Title 20 as 8921 and USC title 18 as 921 and MCL as 380.1313(4).
WEAPONS POLICY
It is the policy of Muskegon Community College that no person employed by the College or any student or visitor to College buildings, facilities, vehicles, grounds and other College property shall possess a weapon and/or dangerous weapon in a College building, on College grounds, during a College-sponsored activity, or during such times as students are under the supervision of College authorities. “Weapons and/or dangerous weapons” is defined to include firearms and weapons as defined in USC Title 20 as 8921 and USC title 18 as 921 and MCL as 380.1313(4).
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That makes a lot of sense. And that's kind of what I was getting from them, except they weren't positive about it. I guess it isn't a question they get asked much.
I have no desire to push the definition of classroom as I don't think I've ever set foot inside any of the buildings on campus. It's just way easier to be able to walk directly across the campus instead of weaving my way around it.
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The thing that really gets me about the law vs. College policy in regards to parking lots is the following: If I have business to take care of following my morning classes I either have to park somewhere off campus or leave my firearm at home and return home to retrieve it before running errands. Because the way the policy is written if I were to park in the parking lot and lock up my pistol I could be expelled and lose my sponsorship for violating school policy. The policy states that the parking lot is their property, but state law says that parking lots are not considered premises. Furthermore, I could park at the college across the street, lock up my pistol, walk to my college, and neither violate my college policy, nor the state law, and since I am not a student of the other college I would not be violating their policy either. The worst that could happen is if someone saw me locking up my firearm I could be asked to not park there anymore. :rant:
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hey this sounds interesting i am going to start up school in the winter and that would be nice if it passed
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Yes, this very matter drives me nuts. Even if I parked off campus and walked in, I from time to time, use my vehicle for work purposes. Besides that, I fix furnaces and air conditioners on the side, and too often I get a repair job nearby work in one of the ghetto 'hoods. I have to drive all the way home and arm up before I go do the job, because I ain't going to these places without. Costs me almost an extra hour of my time for every little job...kinda hurts the dollars made per hour scale.
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I did not know that as a visitor, my rights given to me by the state could be pre-empted. Sorry I think state over rules the college in my case as I can have a pistol in my vehicle in the parking lot.
See below:
Pistol Free Areas
Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:
1.
Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian
2.
Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.
3.
Sports arena or stadium
4.
A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises
5.
Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons
6.
An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more
7.
A hospital
8.
A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university
9.
A Casino
"Premises" does not include the parking areas of the places listed above in 1 through 8.
A pistol is subject to immediate seizure if the CCW permit holder is carrying a pistol in a "pistol free" area. The following penalties may also be imposed:
* First offense: State Civil Infraction, $500 fine, CCW permit suspended 6 months
* Second offense: 90-day misdemeanor, $1000 fine, CCW permit revoked
* Third and subsequent offenses: 4-year felony, $5000 fine, CCW permit revoked
Furthermore, effective March 29, 2001, per Administrative Order 2001-1 of the Michigan Supreme Court:
*
"Weapons are not permitted in any courtroom, office, or other space used for official court business or by judicial employees unless the chief judge or other person designated by the chief judge has given prior approval consistent with the court's written policy."
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