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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Do you agree or disagree with the contents of the following article?
Kish Collections: Concealed Carry Would Have Saved Lives at Fort Hood
Can anyone help to answer the following questions?

1) When were privately owned guns banned from Fort Hood? Why? Who banned them? I have heard from ex-military that privately owned guns were banned in the late 70's or early 80's. Is this true?

2) Where were the armed guards? I have heard that armed guards were common at Fort Hood in the 50's. Is this true? When were the number of armed guards reduced? Why? Who reduced them? When was Fort Hood security outsourced? Why? Who outsourced it?
 

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Even open carry would have saved lives,3 minute response time is BS,I believe all Senior NCO's and Officers should be armed with sidearms to be able to defend the troops under their control,had that policy been in place there would have been numerous armed people on site that could have immediately returned fire not to mention the fact knowing that there would be an armed threat the terrorist may have never considered it due to him being engaged immediately
 

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I believe it would have changed things if the people on base were carrying. When someone is shooting at you I don't believe you have time to call police and wait for them to respond. All the while the guy is shooting up the place.

Gun free zones are like a free buffet to the BG's. They know they will not be met with return fire. I personally try to avoid gun free zones where I am most vulnerable to bad guys. You think BG's follow those signs?? lol

Reminds me of this.......

 

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I work on a Navy Base and I can tell you security is a flat out joke. Anyone could get a gun on base at any time, it's ridiculous. Not to mention that on my particular base, housing is open to the public, but firearms are still banned!!!:blink: Concealed carry in my line of work would be impossible due to going on and off Submarines all day, but for the office workers and non-waterfront guys it wouldn't be. The gate guards are absolutely worthless when it comes to stopping criminals or murderous people. These guys think that just because you need an ID to get on base, that stops the bad guys.
 

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My guess would be that our soldiers are only trusted to fight and die for our leaders, therefore they don't need to defend themselves until they are safely placed onto foriegn soil. Apparently they are then trusted to kill the enemy, until they return home where they can be feared and reviled by the leaders who sent them away in the first place.
 

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I can't give you any sources, but I do know this.... I spent eight years in the Air Force and it was VERY illegal to carry a gun on base. You could own guns, but they had to be kept in the base armory. Any time you wanted to get your gun, you had to fill out paperwork before the SP's could release your own gun into your care.

In fact, there was an SP (Security Policeman) who was discharged from the Air Force because a gun was found in his dorm room. This was on Bergstrom AFB in the late 80's.
 

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My guess would be that our soldiers are only trusted to fight and die for our leaders, therefore they don't need to defend themselves until they are safely placed onto foriegn soil. Apparently they are then trusted to kill the enemy, until they return home where they can be feared and reviled by the leaders who sent them away in the first place.
Wow, quite a pain body there.

I agree that open carry would be a good Idea by NCO's in charge of facilities...........I don't think that military posts are going to let the rank and file carry concealed.
 

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Wow! Soldiers can't be trusted to CCW? What am I missing here?
Certainly this BG army officer could still have killed a few, but he would have looked like swiss cheese in but a moment or two. Perhaps he would not have even tried if he knew all personnel were armed.:blink:
 

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Your average enlisted Joe is not the most disciplined individual and theft has always been a problem in the barracks. The "unsecured footlocker" scene in Full Metal Jacket is not a hollywood embellishment.

I like dukalmighty's idea. I think all NCOs and officers should carry pistols at all times, and housing (on OR off post) should be allowed to maintain a firearm.
 

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OK -- let me see the last time we had a shooting on a military base was --- I'm still trying to remember --- still thinking --- Now all of a sudden we need to arm everyone on base!! Come on people.. this is a one in a kind thing -- but I think we need to arm them now because of copy cat people who may try the same thing.... You always have the copy cat nut out there...
 

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This is way over my pay grade. Walk into a "room" with lots of uniformed soldiers shooting. How to know who is the BG?? Assume the MP's are shooting at the right target?

I'm convinced civilian (e.g. shopping mall) are easier to sort out.
 

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If ten uniformed people pulled and started shooting, how many cases of friendly fire might have happened?
I bet less than those who were killed or injured as it happened.
 

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You can't stop somebody that has this type of intent, arm everyone there and it doesn't make a difference. Because the BG changes tactics, ie suicide bomb. This jerk wasn't planning on getting away with it! His plan was actually ruined because he is alive.
As far as carrying on base there is no way that is ever going to change, been there done that. These guys come HOME and need to feel some normalcy, when they are deployed they are in a "state of readiness" all the time. There is no training for a traitor at home on base, no clear mission.
 

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I see a couple of things here:

1) These people are soldiers; they are trained to strip and handle weapons blindfolded.

2) You ask these same soldiers to risk their lives on our behalf for something just a little more than minimum wage, calling in airstrikes with million dollar ordinance, yet you don't trust them with defending themselves or anyone else when they are on base or at home?

3) The only time they are allowed to lock and load is often only when they are leaving for battle and then there are complex rules of engagement which are difficult to interpret and usually confuse more than they clarify.

No wonder our troops are suffering. If you can't trust these people with weapons, who can you trust, and what kind of message are their commanders sending by having so little confidence in their troops?
 

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Some level of concealed carry on base makes a lot of sense. However in my limited experience, when something like this happens those in authority are much more worried about trying to make it impossible for someone to do something like this again. They don't want to trust anybody and so relaxing the rules to let a few folks carry is not likely. Of course one can't make such an incident impossible, but you can make it a bit more difficult for the crazy guy while at the same time hassling everyone else.
 

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OK -- let me see the last time we had a shooting on a military base was --- I'm still trying to remember --- still thinking --- Now all of a sudden we need to arm everyone on base!! Come on people.. this is a one in a kind thing -- but I think we need to arm them now because of copy cat people who may try the same thing.... You always have the copy cat nut out there...
FYI Ft. Lewis had a shooting a few months ago, Could have been alot worse.

Fort Lewis shooting leaves 2 dead - CNN.com
 

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Your average enlisted Joe is not the most disciplined individual and theft has always been a problem in the barracks. The "unsecured footlocker" scene in Full Metal Jacket is not a hollywood embellishment.

I like dukalmighty's idea. I think all NCOs and officers should carry pistols at all times, and housing (on OR off post) should be allowed to maintain a firearm.
I myself was a "run of the mill" enlisted joe, I can tell you personally NCOs and Officers arnt any better with gun control. Ive personally seen 2 Officers download a pistol by shooting around into the water tank. A Chief playing with his sidearm resulting in a discharge. Morons are everwhere, Hell the ex Vise President shot someone in the face with a shotgun.

I have a CPL and am very responsible but alas cannot go onto base with it. Just because someone wears the rank, Doesnt mean they are anymore responsible.
 

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The average soldier, officer or enlisted, is not very skilled with handguns. I doubt we will see a change in the carry of weapons on base. In fact I think the current policy is good.

However, if the policy were changed to allow NCOs and officers to carry handguns it would require a lot of training and time. I doubt that under the current environment that is going to happen.

Considering that some young soldiers might attempt, under a fit of anger or after drinking, to shoot a superior I would not support a blanket permission to carry regardless of the amount of training.

I would not have any concern about operating on a military base. I continue to think they are safe compared to anywhere else. The current no gun policy is OK with me.

Regards,
Jerry
 

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If ten uniformed people pulled and started shooting, how many cases of friendly fire might have happened?
None.

Everyone shoots the bad guy, reholsters and starts bragging over how the 45 WAS better than the 9mm, 40, 357, etc.
 
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