[Bumper]

There is a movement, started on Packing.org to email Ms. Gale Norton, Secretary of the Interior, to allow CCW holders to carry their weapons legally within National Parks. Please cut and paste a copy of the email below into an email and send it, too. Who knows, you may be able to change the policy. We won't change it by doing nothing.

<Be sure to add your own name and address to the end>

==================

Ms. Gale Norton
Secretary of the Interior
U.S. Department of the Interior
Dept. HG, 1849 C Street, NW
Washington, DC 20240
Phone: (202) 208-7351
[email protected]

Dear Secretary Norton,

The regulations for federal parks need to be revised. Any citizen who is trusted by a state to carry a handgun for self-defense needs to be allowed to carry that handgun in federal parks. This can be accomplished easily using the same mechanism that is used in federal forests: have the park regulations assimilate the host state's firearms laws.

Criminals know no boundaries. Parks, often with remote areas, are not immune from violent crime. My right to defend my life and the lives of my family should not end at an artificial boundary that violent criminals will never respect.

- We want the NPS to recognize state issued concealed weapons licenses via a change to 36CFR2.4.

- National Parks are the site of over 4,400 serious crimes each year, including 10 murders, 132 rapes, 70 robberies, 3 kidnappings, 212 aggravated assaults, 488 burglaries, 3,277 larcenies and thefts, 130 motor vehicle thefts, and 104 arsons.

- We can expect to prevent 5 murders each year, 26 rapes, 96 aggravated assaults, 36 robberies, and 107 burglaries by allowing lawful defensive firearms within National Parks.

- Dangerous animals attack park visitors and park employees.

- Citizens with concealed weapons licenses are the most law abiding sector of society and therefore least likely to engage in unauthorized use of firearms.

- Criminals already ignore the gun ban and laws prohibiting violent crimes. The gun ban does not protect park visitors or employees.

- The gun ban is un-constitutional. President Bush has stated the position of the Administration is that the 2A protects an individual right to keep and bear arms, yet this ban prohibits citizens from exercising their 2A rights.

- Demand that the NPS explain how regulation 36CFR2.4 passes "strict scrutiny".

- The gun ban is contrary to Chapter 8 of the NPS Management Policy, paragraph 8.2.5.1 Visitor Safety, which states “The saving of human life will take precedence over all other management actions as the Park Service strives to protect human life and provide for injury- free visits."

Law abiding gun owners expect the Bush administration to live up to their promises to protect our Second Amendment civil rights. Please let me know what you are going to do to protect my right to self-defense.


Sincerely,
[name and address]

 

[JT]

A couple of years ago I was thinking bout taking the family down for a little vacation in Big Bend National Park. Since I have a Texas CHL I figured I would be able to carry there. I called to make sure and found out I wasn’t. Saying the person I talked to was very rude would be an understatement.

I decided against going on vacation there. You hear enough problems going on in National Parks from two legged and four legged predators that I did not want to go unarmed. Especially to a park right on the border with Mexico.

 

[Bumper]

I'm not sure how the whole effort went with people emailing Gale Norton about it, I hope something will eventually get done to fix it. If you haven't noticed, some of the BLM and National Forest lands are being closed to shooting and carrying. If something isn't done soon we may lose the right on ALL federal recreational land.

 

[KC135]

Life

Is about choices. We all get to make our own. Decisions about when and where one carriys, are very personal.

 

[Pylon]

sent

 

[Tusker10MM]

New Member Jumps On In

It is my understanding that Ms. Norton is quite in favor of having this changed. I also would encourarge everyone to contact her in this regard.

 

[Scott]

New Petition for Rule Making Request by VCDL

I received this today from my local VCDL guy. Philip looks like he has a plan. Read on for Philip\'s message.

http://www.vcdl.org/new/Petition_for_Rulemaking.pdf


Do you want to carry in National Parks? Please read on!

VCDL has finally got a Petition for Rule Making (PRM) ready to present to the Department of the Interior. Unlike writing letters to the Department of the Interior or signing regular petitions, all of which the DOI can ignore, the PRM will force the DOI to consider allowing permit holders to carry in National Parks. They will have to hold a public comment period. I will advise when that happens, as then we will need lots of comments sent to them by everyone on Packing and elsewhere.

For now we need as many national and state organizations to sign on to it as possible. We are NOT looking for individuals to be a petitioner – but individuals should contact their state and national organizations to encourage them to sign on to the PRM ASAP. I will update the end of this message with those organizations who have signed-on as I receive them.

National and state gun organizations: print out the entire petition so you can read it and fill in the last page. You can then either fax the last page to me at: 804-739-8376

Or you can mail the last page to me at:

Philip Van Cleave
VCDL
5509 West Bay Court
Midlothian, VA 23112-2506

I will be sending this in around January 15th, 2005 – so please get the signed pages to me as soon as possible.

 

[Betty]

I've been hearing more and more stories about druggies setting up in parks. I'd love to go hiking and camping in a state or national park, but I don't like going where I can't carry. Even exploring my parent's 200 acres I run across armed trespassers.

 

[Scott]

Out here I live less than a mile from the Appalachian Trail, but I won't get on it except during peak season. 6 people have been murdered within 20 miles of my house on the Trail. I've lost track of the assualts etc. Also the Shenandoah NP is a haven for poachers and druggies. So I don't leave Skyline Drive when I go there either. I usually just ride the motorcycle on through.

Betty, like you I have encountered trespassers on my land, and on my club's land. So I almost always open carry when I am out and about on these properties. I seem to be able to get the point across that they aren't welcome. People tell me being on the big and tall side doesn't hurt either.

Fortunately in Virginia we are allowed to carry in our state and local parks.

 

[meme]

The Constitution says you can ccw anyplace.

so that's what I recommend, and have always done. If your gun is properly concealed, what are you worried-about?

 

[armoredman]

 

[Scott]

Originally posted by meme
so that's what I recommend, and have always done. If your gun is properly concealed, what are you worried-about?

Do you also advocate carrying into federal buildings, onto military reservations, and onto airplanes?

I've reached a point in my life where I have more to lose than gain by being discovered carrying a firearm illegally in a National Park. A lot of things can happen that would result in the discovery of an illegally concealed firearm and I'm not willing to risk it. If you wish to do so, that is your prerogative.

I suppose you could always go to a National Park with the intention of being arrested and charged in the hope that you could bring the case to the level of overturning the National Park ban. Now that may be a good purpose.
However, Please don't recommend to other people to disregard or to intentionally break the law. It does not reflect well on gun owners or this forum.

 

[Captain Crunch]

meme, where does one find this provision in the Constitution? I assume you mean the U.S. version.

Sorry, Armoredman, I couldn't resist dis-obeying your no feeding warning.

I agree with Scott completely. I live about a half hour away from Glacier National Park, where firearms of any type are prohibited, concealed or otherwise, regardless of whether you have a CWP or not.

Yeah, I know this violates my RKBA but I obey it simply because the consequences aren't worth the risk. The Park Rangers conduct unannounced random searches of vehicles both entering & leaving the park. I know the odds of being stopped are slim, and my concealed firearm being discovered even slimmer, nevertheless, the risk is there, and I don't feel like taking the chance.

Sure, it would only be a misdemeanor citation, but that would likely be enough to have my Montana CWP revoked, plus the nearest Federal District Court is in Missoula, a 300 mile round trip away.

So I don\'t take the risk. When I go to the park, my gun stays home.

 

[Tusker10MM]

Coming to Virginia

Originally posted by Betty
I've been hearing more and more stories about druggies setting up in parks. I'd love to go hiking and camping in a state or national park, but I don't like going where I can't carry. Even exploring my parent's 200 acres I run across armed trespassers.

Betty-- Please feel free to travel to Virginia-- Our somewhat new, Democrat Gov. signed a bill 'allowing' us to carry in VA. state parks. I believe Va. does allow TN. as well, but check packing.org to be sure.

 

[Bumper]

Originally posted by meme
so that\'s what I recommend, and have always done. If your gun is properly concealed, what are you worried-about?

Well, I hate to say it, but when you are caught, you will become one of the negative statistics that all law abiding CCW holders must live down. Then again, I have my doubts whether you really hold one.....

 

[JungleJim]

I hate that we are restricted from carrying in National parks. I\'m not too concerned about the wildlife being a problem, with a little knowledge and common sense you can avoid conflicts with them. It\'s the two legged predators that are more of a problem.
Hopefully someday we can fix this problem.

 

[logistar]

I am not advocating carrying in National Parks however....

I AM curious about what the penalty is for doing so. I have never been able to find out just what it is.

Does anyone know of a government link that states the penalty for carrying in a National Park???

 

[Bumper]

Originally posted by logistar
I am not advocating carrying in National Parks however....

I AM curious about what the penalty is for doing so. I have never been able to find out just what it is.

Does anyone know of a government link that states the penalty for carrying in a National Park???

Hmmm, good question I would assume that it would be the same as acrrying in a federal building but not sure what that would be either. Anyone have any answers?

 

[Captain Crunch]

Here\'s a link to NPS weapons regulations:

http://www.nps.gov/pub_aff/e-mail/weapons.htm

This particular document doesn\'t address penalties, tho. I\'ll continue searching & will post anything I find.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Well, I haven\'t found much on penalties so far. I did find one case where a guy was convicted of possessing a shotgun in a National Park and was fined $100.00.

The answer can be found somewhere in Title 36, Code Of Federal Regulations. I\'ll keep looking.

FYI, this is from the NRA/ILA web site:

Generally, firearms are prohibited in national parks. If you are transporting firearms, you must notify the ranger or gate attendant on your arrival, and your firearm must be rendered inoperable before you enter the park. The National Park Service defines inoperable to mean unloaded, cased, broken down if possible, and out of sight. Individuals in possession of an operable firearm in a national park are subject to arrest. Rules in various state park systems vary, so always inquire first.