Defensive Carry banner

1 - 20 of 49 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,260 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I'm usually not into hyphothetical situations, but due to the growing number of carry permit holders that could increase the odds of something like this really happening...this one has me thinking "what if"??? Keep in mind this is just one of many possible scenarios.

Let's say you are in a parking lot and are forced to present, but not fire your weapon to stop an attacker with a pipe, crowbar, etc. (Please I'm not looking for a shoot or don't shoot arguement). At the same moment another CC'er is exiting his car and only sees you with your gun drawn, but does not realize you are on the defense. The next thing you see is him drawing down on you!!!

What would you do?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,206 Posts
Anything is a possibility and this is one although I think very remote. From my perspective I see another attacker only this one has a gun not a pipe/crowbar. Maybe this is where one of those CC badges would come in handy. (Joking folks, not trying to hijack the thread.) Anyway I am now being attacked from two sides. Let's hope the guy with the gun doesn't come at me shooting and I can somehow defuse the situation .
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,458 Posts
I think it is a valid fear, which is part of why I would be calling the police asap after I pulled my weapon. I think some firearms owners and CCW'ers have something akin to a "white hat" mentality, where they just look for an instance to use their weapon, trying to get their name in the papers or some such thing (I'm not exactly sure). I don't know how to fix that issue though.

So I guess I'd hope that my military haircut, clean shaven appearance, and decent clothing would be enough to make them think that I was some sort of gov't employee (which I am). And hopefully the BG would be some shaggy, ill-kempt druggie looking type, and the CCW'er would have some common sense. It's really about the best answer I have for now, maybe this thread will give me some better ones.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,255 Posts
I think the case your presenting is a good reason why if you present your gun but don't shoot, you should be talking very loudly, giving direct commands on what the person you drew down on should be doing.

If your giving loud commands to the person and they are complying. Drop the crow bar, back off I don't want any trouble, get on your knees, or lay flat on the ground away from your weapon, ok fill in the other various number of commands one might give here.

But the point is, the other person if they come out of a store or whereever and see someone with a gun drawn giving directions for someone else to comply in a non offensive manner, well they shouldn't be drawing down on you.

Would you, or would you observe to make sure that the person with the gun was only making the other submit? I feel most would wait the 1 to 2 seconds it would take to figure out what was going on.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
50,597 Posts
If some other CC'er can't tell the difference between a thug in a black hoodie with a crowbar or a knife facing an elderly white-haired lady and her husband growling out orders to 'back off'...we're going to have problems.
Hey, it's a 'dog eat dog' world out there, and I will deal with the crime forced upon me and all the possible tangents as they happen.:comeandgetsome::twak:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,276 Posts
This is when one of those CCW badges would come in real handy...

:haha:


In all honesty, I don't know that there is a good answer given that sort of hypothetical. The upside is it's probably unlikely that you would have that kind of convergence in the first place. I would say your best bet would be to run like a bat outta Hades since you would really have no idea if it was another CCW holder or the guy's accomplice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,254 Posts
I agree with what is said about being very vocal.

If the second carrier gets out of his vehicle and before he even sees you holding your would-be assailant at gun point he hears you screaming, "CALL THE POLICE!" That's automatically going to identify you as someone who is okay with the police being on the scene (usually a roll reserved for the good guy).

Keep the communication going ("Call 911!", "Don't move.", "I need an officer.", "Drop your weapon.", "HELP!"), even when the police arrive, and keep yourself out of suspicion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,226 Posts
I think the case your presenting is a good reason why if you present your gun but don't shoot, you should be talking very loudly, giving direct commands on what the person you drew down on should be doing.

If your giving loud commands to the person and they are complying. Drop the crow bar, back off I don't want any trouble, get on your knees, or lay flat on the ground away from your weapon, ok fill in the other various number of commands one might give here.
^This...

...and this. V
I would shout, "Call 911."
If I had to pull a firearm on someone, I'd be shouting to anyone nearby to call 911.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,260 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
If some other CC'er can't tell the difference between a thug in a black hoodie with a crowbar or a knife facing an elderly white-haired lady and her husband growling out orders to 'back off'...we're going to have problems.
Hey, it's a 'dog eat dog' world out there, and I will deal with the crime forced upon me and all the possible tangents as they happen.:comeandgetsome::twak:
retsup99...Ms. Orangevol isn't going to appreciate you calling her an elderly white-haired lady...LOL :rofl:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
Concerned about being shot by another CCW'er? Hadn't even considered the possibility. I'm in CA! The chances of that happening here today are only slightly better than the Earth being hit by a killer comet! Finally found ONE reason to take solace in CA's stupid gun laws. (That single reason is sure to be lonely for a long time.)

Now, being serious, that situation will likely change significantly in 2010 as the judiciary is on hold in CCW issuance cases until Heller II is decided, incorporating Heller I. Then our "may issue" will likely be modified by court ruling to force the inclusion of personal defense as good cause. That will effectively make CA a "shall issue" state. Then I might have to worry about it. But honestly, no, I don't worry about getting shot by another CCW'er.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
I've thought about this as well believe it or not. I think it is another great reason to take the approach of being a good witness before trying to save the day of someone you don't know, especially when you don't know the situation fully. Not only could impulsively intervening injure a law abiding ccw'er, imagine the consequences if it was an off duty cop with the gun out.
:nono:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,182 Posts
IT's a concern I have.....

Having worked in the system... we've been arresting someone on a warrant , considered dangerous, and having been shot at by them .... and add being in normal clothes ... a Sheriff's officer came into the situation (not knowing) and drawing down on us. On top of that, he was a very nervous "rookie"... ugh... who was on his first patrol by himself.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,252 Posts
I'm usually not into hyphothetical situations, but due to the growing number of carry permit holders that could increase the odds of something like this really happening...this one has me thinking "what if"??? Keep in mind this is just one of many possible scenarios.

Let's say you are in a parking lot and are forced to present, but not fire your weapon to stop an attacker with a pipe, crowbar, etc. (Please I'm not looking for a shoot or don't shoot arguement). At the same moment another CC'er is exiting his car and only sees you with your gun drawn, but does not realize you are on the defense. The next thing you see is him drawing down on you!!!

What would you do?
I have often posted that my greatest fear, when off duty, is being shot by a fellow LEO. Now add the additional CCW Permit, or whatever name it's called in the various locales, to the conundrum and you have a recipe for disaster.

That is one of many reasons for me to be reticent in engaging another party with a firearm. The only advice I can give on this subject is, If you don't know what's going on, stay the heck out of it!

What you think is happening may be 180 degrees from the truth. You need to be 100% positive, or not get involved.

Biker
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
657 Posts
That's why CC's aren't cops. They are not supposed to get involved.
Depends on the situation. Age, gender, stance. All of those would greatly influence my reaction as the "second CCW".

Pardon my pragmatism, but I'm far more likely to stick my neck out to aide the "white haired elderly lady" than any man.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,252 Posts
Depends on the situation. Age, gender, stance. All of those would greatly influence my reaction as the "second CCW".

Pardon my pragmatism, but I'm far more likely to stick my neck out to aide the "white haired elderly lady" than any man.
OK, I'll play along and give you a scenario, based on real life BTW.

69 y/o "little old lady" walking across the parking lot of a mall after her shopping trip. She has one bag, with store name on said bag. Suddenly two individuals come up to her. One turns her and places her onto a nearby vehicle. The other stands to the side and has a weapon drawn. You, Jolly Joe CCW Holder and savior of the world sees the "little old lady" and decide to intervene on her behalf.

GAME OVER!!!

The "little old lady" in question is a known felon and the two that appear to be aggressors are in fact law enforcement agents. The lady in question is known to carry a gun and is wanted for murder in relation to insurance fraud. The LEO's are dressed in "street clothes" and have no identifying insignia.

Still want to get involved? Before that gun comes out you need to be 100% sure of what is going on. If you produce your gun and foolishly point it at the LEO's they are justified in ending your life to save theirs. I myself will not shed one tear for you, as you were the fool here.

Your CCW Permit is not a "Save The World" license. That "little old lady" is afforded the same opportunity as you in regards to protecting herself, yet chose not to do so. Who are you to countermand her choice? Be a good witness and summon those with the statutory authority to intervene in this situation. If the suspected badguys turn on you, then deal with them in the appropriate manner best fitting the circumstances.

I don't care if the "little old lady" dies or is injured. Fecal matter happens, that's life. If you are wondering, yes, I have multiple "little old ladies" in my family, and while I may intervene and help them, I am also assured of knowing who is who in a situation, you don't.

Biker
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
657 Posts
Your CCW Permit is not a "Save The World" license. That "little old lady" is afforded the same opportunity as you in regards to protecting herself, yet chose not to do so. Who are you to countermand her choice? Be a good witness and summon those with the statutory authority to intervene in this situation. If the suspected badguys turn on you, then deal with them in the appropriate manner best fitting the circumstances.

I don't care if the "little old lady" dies or is injured. Fecal matter happens, that's life. If you are wondering, yes, I have multiple "little old ladies" in my family, and while I may intervene and help them, I am also assured of knowing who is who in a situation, you don't.

Biker
Over the years I've heard countless stories of people being killed, surrounded by witnesses who ignored pleas for help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
69 Posts
The short answer is this: IT'S NOT YOUR PROBLEM!

If you see something like that, get on the cell phone and leave your gun the frack alone. It is there IF you feel that YOUR life is in danger!

You are not a cop!

If you want to save the world, go join the local PD and be a cop. Otherwise, call and observe, be a good witness.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,421 Posts
If you don't know what's going on, stay the heck out of it!

What you think is happening may be 180 degrees from the truth. You need to be 100% positive, or not get involved.
Both of those points should be deeply embedded in everyones mind, first and foremost. :hand10:
 
1 - 20 of 49 Posts
Top