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No, bandwagon is correct.
Doesn't look like it to me.

You talk about group think, and you seem to be a part of it. Your studies are an example of that. You say you’re able to spot most of the nonsense, but at multiple points in this post you show otherwise.
I see, so your criteria that my studies are incorrect is that your gut feeling tells you to disagree with them...

First, neither of your studies actually show that any of the masks are effective against covid.
You'll find that here, here and here.

As far as your opinion...
When I present data and the results of a statistical analysis, it's not an "opinion." When you tell me I'm wrong without providing any substantiation whatsoever, that's an opinion.

...on China and why they were making this, you may be right, you may not be.
Oh, the China Covid-19 biological warfare theory... Yes, that is my opinion. It is, however, an informed opinion, one well laid out, and that stands to reason.

It’s not really worth arguing about because we will probably never know the truth. All I’m saying is I’m not ruling it out. Smallpox has be eradicated, yet I still had to get a smallpox vaccine because of the possibility of it being weaponized.
As did all who serve.

my data on the CFR is correct. Look closer. You misinterpreted what I said. I’m not in my 80s, it would not be logical to think that I’m at the same risk as someone who is.
I do my best not to be cryptic so as not to send someone else on a chase through 115 posts. Would you please re-state what you mean by "CFR" and your data on it? Thanks.
 

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I'm not sure what your source is. Has it been peer reviewed?
My numbers match the results of a variety of epidemiologists as well as other statisticians both here in the U.S. as well as around the world.

I'm one of the (very) few who corralled a wide variety of disparate and incomplete reports and coalesced the methodology into a table whereby the Covid-19 stats from any country can be directly compared with those from other countries.

Here's this morning's update. I worked on the organization, along with the listing of my sources for the raw information. Click it for the full-sized view.

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I was referring to the CDC, and questioning whether their botched reaction was incompetence or complicity.
I try to avoid deciding motives behind people's actions. I know that I have been attacked for motivations that were not true. However, either the CDC was extraordinarily incompetent, beyond its normal incompetency due to innate stupidity, or there was an intentional bias against allowing actual, useful data to be collected and collated. If there was that intentional bias, it possibly was against a conservative administration, to hamstring it against proper actions. I believe that Occam's razor applied to this leans heavily to political intentions overruling science. But, yeah, I think, can't prove, that this obfuscation was intentional!

In recent years, I have watched the CDC move more and more to self interest and politics. I used to have a high regard for them. I now am very cautious about anything that comes from them.
The problem is that we paid for them to develop the virus. That makes us complicit.
I'm going to go with "Intentional". Look at the results. Everything that the Communists were looking to achieve in one fell swoop.
And the fact that agents within our government paid for it makes THEM complicit. The same one's who spent four years cooking up bogus charges against Trump in an attempt to get rid of him. And once again, they used the virus to help achieve that goal.
 

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Doesn't look like it to me.



I see, so your criteria that my studies are incorrect is that your gut feeling tells you to disagree with them...



You'll find that here, here and here.



When I present data and the results of a statistical analysis, it's not an "opinion." When you tell me I'm wrong without providing any substantiation whatsoever, that's an opinion.



Oh, the China Covid-19 biological warfare theory... Yes, that is my opinion. It is, however, an informed opinion, one well laid out, and that stands to reason.



As did all who serve.



I do my best not to be cryptic so as not to send someone else on a chase through 115 posts. Would you please re-state what you mean by "CFR" and your data on it? Thanks.
If it doesnt look like it to you, then maybe you should get your eyes checked. Jumping "off" the bandwagon as you call it, would mean me changing my beliefs to things like:
1-Believing Neil Fergussons models, which I could see from the beginning were not accurate. His work(for the second "pandemic" in a row was a complete failure.
2- Believing that we would just "flatten the curve" in two weeks and save a bunch of lives, which anyone could have seen wouldnt work.
3-Believing that the concept of flattening the curve was even about saving lives. It wasnt. And that was demonstrated over time.
4- Believing that we were going to run out of ventilators. We weren't.
5- Believing the number of deaths, cases, hospitalizatons are being reported accurately. They are not, and thats not just coming from me, its coming from hospitals, testing sites, and state health organizations.
6- Beliveing that masks work, because of studies like the ones you have shown that dont say what you think they do.
7-Lastly, being scared out of my mind for the past year and a half because of a weak virus, wearing a mask everywhere I go, while anxiously awaiting a "vaccine", then continuing to wear my mask because I cant be certain either of them really work.


As far as your studies, Im not saying they are wrong, Im saying that they dont show that the stuff people are wearing around town do literally anything. I suppose I could have been more clear before. N95s and eye protection will offer sufficient protection. But anything less and you are not protected. A study showing that a mask block up to 80% of viral particles does not say that it will protect you from the virus. It says it will block up to 80% of viral particles. A survey was done, I think somewhere in northern california, that showed around 70% of the people getting sick were people who wore masks all the time. Im sure a data guy like yourself could see that this doesnt tell the whole story. So now we go to the guy in demark who did another study. People who volunteered to participate were randomly assigned to either the mask, or no mask group. The mask group wore surgical masks, and the no mask group wore nothing. They both got sick at the same rate. It amazes me that people like myself, some of the people who interview fauci, Fauci himself, and foreigners, can see that none of these mask studies are conclusive, but all the people who im supposed to believe are experts act like they are, while real life results are proving otherwise.

You say that my arguments are unsubstantiated. The arguments youve made here have been proven wrong many times over the past year and a half. By now Im tired of going back and finding the same data that Ive posted in several other threads.

CFR is Case Fatality Rate.
 

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You say that my arguments are unsubstantiated... The arguments youve made here have been proven wrong many times over the past year and a half...
You just keep restating that, and then claiming things that are utterly false. Just because you keep saying it, doesn't make it true.

You keep claiming that the healthcare system wasn't overwhelmed, when I have firsthand direct knowledge that it was otherwise.
You keep claiming that "flattening the curve" was not meant to save lives, when it has likely saved MILLIONS in the US alone.
As far as masks are concerned, there is significant circumstantial data for surgical masks, good evidence for real PPE (N95+eye) and no particularly convincing reasons to use a cloth mask.

You seem to think that minimizing the perceived impact of COVID strengthens your argument that our civil rights were violated, but as I said before, I think that argument requires no such manipulation.

I guess the question is - what realistic and possible to acquire evidence would convince you that you are wrong?
 

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You just keep restating that, and then claiming things that are utterly false. Just because you keep saying it, doesn't make it true.

You keep claiming that the healthcare system wasn't overwhelmed, when I have firsthand direct knowledge that it was otherwise.
You keep claiming that "flattening the curve" was not meant to save lives, when it has likely saved MILLIONS in the US alone.
As far as masks are concerned, there is significant circumstantial data for surgical masks, good evidence for real PPE (N95+eye) and no particularly convincing reasons to use a cloth mask.

You seem to think that minimizing the perceived impact of COVID strengthens your argument that our civil rights were violated, but as I said before, I think that argument requires no such manipulation.

I guess the question is - what realistic and possible to acquire evidence would convince you that you are wrong?
what you are stating here is false.Our hospitals regularly run full. Covid didn’t make that a new thing. Like I said, maybe things are different in other areas, I’m just speaking to mine. “Flattening the curve” was intended to spread out the same results over a longer period. You can see that by looking at the graphs. It has not saved millions of lives. The attempt at “flattening it was a complete failure so no it didn’t save millions of lives.

what would it take for me to be convinced I’m wrong? That’s a good question. I’d say you’d have to go back in time and change what did or did not happen, because there is not data suggesting I’m wrong. If I was, I wouldn’t have the opinion I do.

ETA: just look at your comments about PCR. You’ve stood up for it for so long, when the issues with it were obvious, and now even you are shifting towards admitting the same thing some of us have been saying for quite a while.
 

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Discussion Starter · #129 ·
These strains have all been genetically sequenced in order to, among other things, map out precisely which ones evolved from which others, all the way back to 19A, first sequences on 12/23/2019.

I have yet to see anything that indicates that here we are in some elevated danger relative to the Flu, Zika, etc.
I'm fairly certain you have, as I've posted it a number of times. Perhaps you just keep ignoring it.
A point of clarification - I did not mean that covid is not more dangerous than the flu, zika, etc. I meant that I've yet to read that some particular mutation is driving a new and more deadly outbreak than what we had before. Certainly there are mutations, and all we can do is monitor them. But the fact that they are mutations, like in ever other virus, should not be a cause to be overly concerned; we should just take the normal precautions we do with other pathogens.

As for your table, don't be offended, but it's just your collection of data, and it's not clear if you are comparing case fatality rate of corona to infection fatality rate of influenza. More to the point, if we don't know the IFR, how can we simply make the claim that the ratio is 52.1 time more deadly than the flu? And from other sources I have read, while it's apparent its more deadly than the flu, there's no clear answer to how much more deadly it actually is.

Regardless, it clear that more people died of covid than from the flu, so I'm not sure how we got down this side track.
 

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The hospital sent us two COVID Care Kits.
They contained two packs each of those common surgical type masks.
Product of China (of course)
Printed on the packages....
"Not Intended To Prevent The Spread Of Any Disease."

So I think they were FeelGoodism from the very start.
N95 & N99 would be worth wearing.
Not an expert opinion but, just a common sense one.

Could you imagine Goodyear Tire Company having the following molded into the sidewalls of their tires...."Not Intended To Be Installed On Any Motor Vehicle!" 🤣
 

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Discussion Starter · #131 · (Edited)
Those who either contracted it or took the vaccination are immune to most if not all of the current strains, and will have some immunity (lessened symptoms/risk of death) to future strains.
Those who haven't been innoculated or infected may have natural immunity in whole or part, but their risk of dying is roughly 25 times (2500%) higher.

Sure would be nice to knock it out of the ballpark so we wouldn't have to fight it, worry about it, deal with it, etc. any more.
It would but I don't believe that is a goal that can be achieved. Which goes back to my initial purpose of the thread - it appears we can manage it now, and thus we should not live in fear of it. Yep, it's a deadly disease for certain segments of the population. But we've got it handled now. People will still die from it, and that's tragic, but acknowledging it is time to move on does not mean that their deaths are any less tragic or should be ignored.

I'll just say this - if I had died from covid, my last wishes would have been to see my kids live normal lives. That means going out for dinner, going to ball games, going to crowded bars and fending off guys hitting on them, and all the social things that we do that make life enjoyable. They are vaccinated along with millions of others, so it's time for them and everyone else to start living again.
 

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I had an elderly couple in the check out line at the grocery story tonight scold me for not wearing my mask and the gentlemen told me I was putting his life in danger.

I just looked the man right in the eye and said, "Good. Two fewer Democrats". He and his wife nearly had a fit right there in the store. I just whistled happily towards the exit. I have been waiting 15 months to use that line.
 

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I had an elderly couple in the check out line at the grocery story tonight scold me for not wearing my mask and the gentlemen told me I was putting his life in danger.

I just looked the man right in the eye and said, "Good. Two fewer Democrats". He and his wife nearly had a fit right there in the store. I just whistled happily towards the exit. I have been waiting 15 months to use that line.
LOLOL. it's funny until somebody has a heart attack. 😠😆
 

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I had an elderly couple in the check out line at the grocery story tonight scold me for not wearing my mask and the gentlemen told me I was putting his life in danger.

I just looked the man right in the eye and said, "Good. Two fewer Democrats". He and his wife nearly had a fit right there in the store. I just whistled happily towards the exit. I have been waiting 15 months to use that line.
I will probably never understand how people would think I need to wear a mask for their safety. This idea is proof that people will believe anything. It's more absurd than thinking the earth is flat. If theirs doesnt work, then why would mine?
 

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I read through this mess and so far all I got is that I still need to dither about COVID because some few on Defensive Carry Forum are wound up about COVID and want me to dither some more and also that I need to dither over the Goodyear tires on my wife's car that don't have the "not-to-be-installed" warning, but could blow out.

Does wearing the mask protect Americans from dithering?
 
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I read through this mess and so far all I got is that I still need to dither about COVID because some few on Defensive Carry Forum are wound up about COVID and want me to dither some more and also that I need to dither over the Goodyear tires on my wife's car that don't have the "not-to-be-installed" warning, but could blow out.

Does wearing the mask protect Americans from dithering?
No, just from drooling.
 
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Well OV, it's not working because there are a lot of droolers in our society these days.
 
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The worlds financial investment in China is staggering. Destroying or punishing them would seem to be in a way destroying and punishing our own companies .
The US would just give them more foreign aid to pay any fines. We would borrow it from China with interest to give it back to them.
 
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The US would just give them more foreign aid to pay any fines. We would borrow it from China with interest to give it back to them.
There’s something seriously broke with this country. No safe harbors ahead on this course . Time to turn the boat around.
 
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