Defensive Carry banner

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25,483 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Today's IDPA inspired this subject. It was not over warm and so instead of my usual vest as cover, had a longer and slightly more voluminous light denim shirt on.

Now draw is meant to be carried out with strong hand and not helped by weak - tho in fact in ideal circumstances this would apply.

What I did notice was, as I swept the shirt back, a small part tended to sometimes stay at base of grip - thus preventing by strong down thrust from indexing the grip as usual - and potentially snagging shirt between hand and gun if not careful.

The result was the need for a small grip adjustment prior to engaging targets - not good!. It has made me rethink cover garments such that the length/weight etc minimise this problem.

My Smith and Alexander vest is great in this respect as it is a bit heavier and sweeps aside nicely. A heavier jacket too would I think work well. So fabric weight IMO is a factor.

Just reflecting :smilez:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
That’s why I like Appendix carry with a snub. Even with a cover shirt I can have my hand in my pocket but my thumb can easily touch the grip of my 642 and I can draw very fast if needed. My .02
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25,483 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Good point V-Fib - tho I find appendix just a tad too far fwd for my comfort, plus my 226 is a shade large! - my main thinking now will be the weight and ''sweepability'' of what I wear on top :wink:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
127 Posts
I wonder if sewing a metal washer at the bottom corner of the shirt front would give it enough extra weight to swing out of the way? Since that area is usually doubled over or hemmed, you could even slit it & drop a few washers/coins or whatever in the slit, then sew it shut to keep them in place.

LibertyGal
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,488 Posts
In California in summer, a vest is an advertisement for a concealed carry. I have had good luck with the 5.11 tactical shirt, but occasionally carry with a t-shirt with an open shirt. To draw, I grasp the left side of the shirt and pull away from my body; that usually clears the pistol on the right side. Of course, it works fine in practice; never had to really draw in a real situation. Hope it works then!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
726 Posts
I recently got two very light weight vests from Sportsman's Guide. They cost $20 for two. They are some kind of nylon or rayon fabric and are pretty good for even hot weather. They have the large front pockets and I keep a spare mag on one side and a cell phone on the other. This gives weight to the botton edges and they sweep well with little effort. Since I use them mostly with my motorcycle, the vest is not out of place. The only drawback is that they do cause sweating on my upper back. I guess the fabric doesn't breath and it does lay on the back. However, this is not a big deal and I find I like this arrangement better than a long tailed shirt.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25,483 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Liberty Gal - yes some weight helps and I forgot to mention that my vest does have front pockets and some weight. cell in left and NAA mini in right - this is a major help.

Heavier shirts like in winter also not a major problem as they have enough fabric weight and more of a hem.

I still maintain the Smith vest is about the least obvious IMO for shouting carry, particularly when biking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,513 Posts
Chris beat me to it but, I carry an extra mag in my vest pocket on my carry side. Helps to get the cover garment out of the way. Good point about sewing something on the hem of the shirt tho.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
248 Posts
I've found that a couple of loose rounds or car keys in the pocket are enough to get the vest moving beyond the point of interference.
Another thing is the material the grips are made out of. If the gun has sticky rubber grips like Hogues, it can really cause a problem.

Appendix carry is not an option in IDPA because the gun must be at or behind the centerline of the body. (3:00 or farther).
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
19,004 Posts
I tend to pratice a bit with my cover garments , before wearing em out and about. The weight idea has merit, as windy days can be a pain holding down the cover garment.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25,483 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Also a reminder - for those not doing it yet - the windy day ''elbow in to side'' against piece works very well to avoid blow open problems - and it can be totally discrete.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,260 Posts
A Day in SoFla

This is a friend and fellow IDPA shooter. He always wears a that ugly shirt you see in the video. The best I can describe his technique is that he flips/shoves the side of the shirt with enough force and movement that his hands ends up on top of the gun.

One more thing. Additional weight on the gun side pocket or any added "transformation" or modification to make draw easier is illegal in IDPA. :nono: You get a FTDR.

For everyday carry, you can have an ejection seat if you want:image035:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25,483 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
For everyday carry, you can have an ejection seat if you want
Where do I order that from Miggy? :18:

Ahh yes, on the vid - the rapid flick - that works well and is something I always feel needs practice. That was fast! Looked like fun too!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,260 Posts
We have some twisted CoF designers in our club. I think this one was a Drive-By scenario using your ex-wife as cover :haha:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
With the type of cover garment you describe I would probably go with the draw I use when carrying IWB. Grab shirt with both hands and pull up. Grab gun with strong hand as weak hand holds shirt out of the way. Draw as usual with weak hand meeting strong as you push gun out. A little slower than just being able to sweep the vest out of the way, but prevents the grip adjustment you describe and makes sure you grab all gun and not gun and clothing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,843 Posts
P95, You mentioned in post #7 that you carry your BUG(NAA Mini) in R pocket. Not being expieranced in carry/use of a BUG,I was wondering why you(or do all BUG people) carry your BUG in you strong hand side pocket.(This, NOT being critical) -------
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
569 Posts
I draw from under my garment reasonably well by keeping my thumb against my hand (picture a shadow-puppet snake :) ) until I touch the top side of the grip near the hammer.

Keeping my thumb tightly against my hand has not trapped the garment between my hand and the piece, but it did feel a bit awkward until I practiced a bit.

This works for me regardless of shirt material but I still like a heavier shirt for those windy Indiana days. :)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25,483 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Good point RSSZ - now you mention it I guess the NAA sits right side from habit - of course could be a good argument for left side!!

Maybe switch and try - cell right and NAA left - some logic to that for sure. :wink: Might spread the pocket wear too!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,843 Posts
Every one of us here has their "routine" and I don't want to try to change anybodys. My thoughts are this,remembering that I do not carry a BUG but I do wear a vest as a cover garment quite often.

I'd want the right side(I'm right handed)of my vest to be as light as possible for the "flip back" ease. Though you might lose some of the hold down in wind feature. But the main thing that I preach/teach is that you do not want all your "goodies' on one side of your body.

If your right arm/hand is injured or locked up,you want to be able to access something to use to "unlock" ASAP. You will have to be able to access your "goodies" with your left hand. Another weapon in right vest pocket(a 90deg. pocket) would not work for me.

I carry a 6" streight blade,double edged,partially serated, Gerber,on my belt at 1 o'clock'ish. This blade is oriented so that i can most easily access it with my left hand if my right is locked. Also, it is accessable with my right hand if needbe. I also (depending on how I'm dressed) carry a SAP on my left side that is very easily accessable with my left hand. This is my back up,to my back up ,to my firearm I suppose.

To me, things like this is where force on force drills with your buddies comes in handy. You can try all different weapons,placed in many different locations on your body. These drills at slow speed are great for the "what if" thing.

With my right hand free I will ALWAYS present my firearm first,without even thinking of the blade.

The BG can hold my right arm as tight as he wants to and I'll still be able to come up with a "goodie" or two. -------
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
I think flipping the shirt would probably be faster, but the thought I had is to practice one draw and master it. For that reason, in the winter, when you have a coat zipped/buttoned, there would be no 'flipping', it would be a two-handed rip-up like someone else mentioned here. So perhaps the two-handed rip-up should be the default as it would work in any dress and weather condition?

I'm just thinking/asking out loud. And of course I'm asking from a carry standpoint, not a competition standpoint. I'd prefer to compete in the same method I carry...in order to make my carry draw faster, not the other way around.
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top