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yeah, here in Cleveland the call that "shopping" :embarassed:
 

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IMO, under the circumstances the employee could have fired as the BG turned and pointed his gun at him as the scuffle ensured......after that it was up for grabs...literally. I also believe closing the distance like that put the employees in severe danger.
 

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Me? I never would have gotten close enough to put my gun "against" his (the perp's) back. Too close. If I had successfully "snuck" behind him unnoticed, I might have chosen to split his skull (buffalo him). A lot depends on where, or toward whom, his gun was pointed at the time. I likely would have given myself 8-10 feet of distance, banshee-screamed to turn him around (betting he'd ignore my frontal co-worker) and been a "dead-ready" to press the trigger, center-mass, repeatedly, at the first hint of his own aim. Tough to say, 'cuz I was home in...Kentucky. :yup:
 

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A clinic on poor gun-handling skills by all involved. The robber doesn't know how to retain his firearm. The clerk doesn't know how to disarm an aggressor. The armed citizen doesn't know how to retain his firearm or how to disarm an aggressor. The armed guy who interjected himself suffers similar inabilities.
 

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I agree with the goodguy getting too close for comfort. That scuffle could have ended badly for him.
An El Kabong with a bat or other available hard object would have done wonders for the perp (though a concern would be him pulling the trigger from the shock).
Lots of variables to consider. A damn chess game.
 

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The BG was pointing a gun at the clerk behind the counter. This is one of those situations where shooting someone in the back is justified (at least in my state). This may also have been a situation where the myth that "it is always illegal to shoot someone in the back" was believed and it put the good guys in greater peril.
 

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That's why we train. Poor choices all the way around. Just glad it ended the way it did. Could have had a much different outcome.
I find it remarkable than all of them didn't somehow manage to get shot.
 

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It's like watching the Three friggin Stooges.

1. BG with a gun holding his gun like he's awaiting the range master to instruct him. Putting his muzzle so far out and holding so lightly that the clerk could have just grabbed it himself.

2. First armed good guy got waaay too close and could have just shot from or kept his weapon on the BG from a distance off to the side. First armed guy probably could have shot too once the struggle began. I mean he was struggling with an armed robber.

3. Second armed good guy should have never gotten into the struggle with the previous two. He had some options which could have been yelling at the first good guy to get out of reach of the BG so they both have the chance at a good shot or at least have two guns on the BG, or, he could have just been calling 911 from cover just as the clerk should be doing at this point.

That was a recipe for 3 dead guys and one clerk either hit by friendly fire or dead from the BG killing him the moment someone got up behind him and tried to stop him. The BGs' situational awareness is absolute trash as well. You can't tell me he couldn't hear those running feet behind him. The way he had his finger placed on his gun makes me believe he didn't plan on taking a murder rap.
 

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Being that the dirt bag was pointing a firearm at someone at the time, he was bought and paid for. If the employee wasn't going to shoot he may as well have kept that firearm in his pants and focused on... whatever it was he was trying to do. Someone watched a little too much TV.

Anyone who's caught a raccoon going through the garbage can learn a lot about how humans respond in a situation like this. They're not going to "freeze."
 

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My question is what would a trained LEO do? Gun in play. Threatening clerk? Bang?
 

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I wouldn't have taken the shot coming up behind him. Not until I got the perp to take the gun muzzle off the clerk. The sympathetic nervous system might have the perp firing as a reflex to getting nailed in the back.

Gun off clerk first, then it's game on.
 

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I am no expert, but given the situation of the video, I think if his background was clear, a head shot before he was noticed would have been a perfectly acceptable response from the armed store employee who intervened.

He certainly never should have gotten that close.

If there was a chance the clerk could have been shot if he fired, then I'm not sure what he should have done.
 

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Being the old man that I am, one shot to the head would have saved ALL (both clerks, the tax payers, the cops, and future victims) involved, a more peaceful earth.
I am beginning to have less patience with the roaming dirtbags, and the usually results of our 'injustice system.IMHO
 

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Being the old man that I am, one shot to the head would have saved ALL (both clerks, the tax payers, the cops, and future victims) involved, a more peaceful earth.
I am beginning to have less patience with the roaming dirtbags, and the usually results of our 'injustice system.'IMHO
That's why I asked my question. I am not a LEO and although I have had a lot of training over the years, I know enough about myself and my abilities that I would not have attempted anything that was in that video. It seems that the good guy with the gun was able to approach the bad guy without being detected. Looks like he would have had plenty of time to line up a nice headshot. None of what was on the video would have taken place including the warning shot (!). I think the chances that no one would get hurt were pretty slim. I am shocked that no one did.
 
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A comedy of errors...all around. This should be mandatory viewing in all firearms training classes as what not to do.
 
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At the risk of infuriating the politically sensitive, this video is an example of what an armed, untrained citizenry looks like in action.
 
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