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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I am confused by the law enforcement tactics being used by major city police departments when dealing with the current unrest.
It seems like the front line is all that is being used putting every officer in a straight line facing the demonstration and confronting them straight on.
During my time in law enforcement there were many changes in the way crowd control was done.I have been retired now for several years so I am sure there have been changes in how crowd control is done today.


During my years in law enforcement tactics were refined for when confrontation became up close and personal and arrests were being made. The tactic most often used was for LE to divide into the basic Wedge Formation. The front line would be the element who would have direct contact with the demonstrators. These would be the arresting officers.Behind the front line arresting officers was a second line referred to as Containment. If officers on the front line made an arrest they immediately took the arrestee back behind the front line to the Containment Line and members of the Containment Line immediately moved forward to fill in the gap left by the officers making the arrest. Arresting officers did a very brief arrest report (Name, DOB, Race, Sex, Date, Time, Criminal Charge and Location). Arrestees were turned over to Transport and the arresting officers returned to the formation to become Containment Officers. When moving forward the entire Wedge would chant commands to the protesters. Commands included "MOVE" "GET BACK". If shields were being used the baton was sometimes used to tap the side of the shield to count cadence.
There was always a feeling that the police were in control of the situation. Depending on the mood of the demonstrators this tactic worked very well when they were compliant and if some were not and arrests were needed control was still maintained by the police. Surrounding law enforcement agencies including county and state were trained in this basic crowd control technique. If re-enforcements from other agencies were needed using the Wedge formation could be utilized with a unified look.This was not a cure all tactic only one of others in the law enforcement playbook.

It appears to this writer that some of these major city police agencies could do much better with their crowd control tactics for the safety of their officers. IMHO

Back The Blue ! Police Lives Matter !
 

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I am confused by the law enforcement tactics being used by major city police departments when dealing with the current unrest.
It seems like the front line is all that is being used putting every officer in a straight line facing the demonstration and confronting them straight on.
During my time in law enforcement there were many changes in the way crowd control was done.I have been retired now for several years so I am sure there have been changes in how crowd control is done today.


During my years in law enforcement tactics were refined for when confrontation became up close and personal and arrests were being made. The tactic most often used was for LE was to divide into the basic Wedge Formation. The front line would be the element who would have direct contact with the demonstrators. These would be the arresting officers.Behind the front line arresting officers was a second line referred to as Containment. If officers on the front line made an arrest they immediately took the arrestee back behind the front line to the Containment Line and members of the Containment Line immediately moved forward to fill in the gap left by the officers making the arrest. Arresting officers did a very brief arrest report (Name, DOB, Race, Sex, Date, Time, Criminal Charge and Location). Arrestees were turned over to Transport and the arresting officers returned to the formation to become Containment Officers. When moving forward the entire Wedge would chant commands to the protesters. Commands included "MOVE" "GET BACK". If shields were being used the baton was sometimes used to tap the side of the shield to count cadence.
There was always a feeling that the police were in control of the situation. Depending on the mood of the demonstrators this tactic worked very well when they were compliant and if some were not and arrests were needed control was still maintained by the police. Surrounding law enforcement agencies including county and state were trained in this basic crowd control technique. If re-enforcements from other agencies were needed using the Wedge formation could be utilized with a unified look.This was not a cure all tactic only one of others in the law enforcement playbook.

It appears to this writer that some of these major city police agencies could do much better with their crowd control tactics for the safety of their officers. IMHO

Back The Blue ! Police Lives Matter !
You describe it the way we did it.....but you have to remember that these big cities dictate to the chiefs how the cows eat the cabbage....large cities more often than not means progressive liberal....add in liberal governors and they let the bad guys run the show and officers and innocent citizens get hurt......they need to read the Constitution an let them peacefully protest and squash riots and mayhem....as has been pointed out most of the arrestee's are not from that city....it is outsiders like ANTIFA that is fueling the problem.
 

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The only crowd control I ever did was at College football games. Bunch of drunks.

I was standing in the south endzone of the Gator Bowl in 1978 when Woody Hayes punched the Clemson player. There must have been about 60,000 drunk Clemson fans there and I thought for sure we (the POlice) were going to die as we were greatly outnumbered.

I also remember that Clemson has some really cute female fans.
 

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Our agency pretty much used the same tactic's but as mentioned above, the mayors and city council members ultimately control what the police departments do. Politicians rarely have the fortitude to make the needed decisions because of the media spin on everything and their fear of not being re-elected. Same ole story. They place their Officer's in harms way (and ultimately the citizens) because of their lack of intestinal fortitude.
 

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Current doctrine (not necessarily used, thanks to cowardly politicians) is to have a forward skirmish line, while behind that, there are observers looking thru the crowd to spot the more influential fire-brands. Once Identified, a "flying squad" goes thru the lines, grabs the individual and hustles them out back thru the skirmish line to be processed, ID'd etc.
 

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...............and the protestors are getting whipped into a frenzy by antifa and their ilk.
It's just like a chess game! :scratchchin:
 

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The police know what to do, but they are getting marching orders from social justice warriors.
Hands off the rioters, but go after the legal gun owners
While Chief of Police reports to the politician (usually the mayor) the Sheriff reports to the voters. These days the Sheriff has to split his response to keep both the voters and the politicians satisfied. I would want a strong sheriff over a chief of police any day!
 

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Some of the stuff they are doing is just wrong, period. They had better get it right because if they keep doing stuff like this and lose support of the few who do support them, when the bottles and rocks get traded for guns, they won’t stand a chance.

 

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Here is what I find confusing:

During the Pandemic, Democrat Mayors & Governors have locked down their cities/states to prevent the spread of the disease. But, these same politicians are willing to let them demonstrate in public, and condone the violence, looting and destruction.

The police arrest people for looting and destroying private property, and Liberals are donating money for their release from jail so that they can be out the next night to continue looting and destroying property?

Can you explain the apparent contradictions?
 

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I say do like the Turks, a water cannon to clean up the mess.

 
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Every municipal police department in the US falls under the control of elected municipal officials. When those officials order no arrests for certain behaviors there will be no arrests for those behaviors. When those officials dictate "no go" areas the cops will not go into those areas.

Sure, each cop has a sworn duty to perform, but they also know who signs the paychecks. Perform your sworn duty and lose your job.

Where it might become interesting is when a mayor or commissioner orders officers not to intervene, someone is seriously injured or killed when cops could have prevented it from happening, and the official finds himself facing criminal charges for malfeasance or misfeasance in office, whatever, along with civil rights lawsuits (there is no governmental immunity when an official is acting outside the scope of legal authority). Granted, the police have no specific duty to protect any particular individual or property, but when the evidence shows they were on the scene and refused to act because of orders from above, it is time for some accountability.
 

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I can understand the mayors wanting to avoid scenes of cops beating protesters on the news. Fine. Arrest the trouble makers off camera after you’ve corralled them into a controlled area. But, I think the majority of voters would applaud the beating of arsonists.

And, why is it the news teams can film the looting from start to finish but police don’t respond for 20 minutes?

Lastly, our courthouse in Nashville was guarded by police on bikes wearing shorts. And, they did a great job guarding the sidewalk while the arsonists were unabated about 100 feet away. And, they did not break formation until swat units cleared the doors for the FD. At which point, they used the bicycles as a fence to keep the crowds away from the entrance. I remember Chicago in ‘68. I’m convinced there is room in the middle.
 

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I the riots of my youth, which I avoided but watched with great interest, it seemed cops made a lot more use of horse-mounted officers, tear gas and water cannons, all of which seemed very effective.
 

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We watched a few hours of the local trouble live last night from our home about 30 minutes away. And, a few things struck me. 1. When the vandals began attacking the Ryman theater (original home of the grand ol opry), I felt the urge to grab my rifle. But, 2. There was a very sudden fleeing of people which didn’t make sense.

I realize now that the news did a terrible job conveying the sense that there were multiple sides present. On camera, everyone in the crowd looks to be a bad guy. But, of course, the vandals fled for their lives because of something or someone off camera.

The third thing I realized is the police should forget about lines and marching. They should just follow the news crews since the cameras are there 20 minutes before the police are.
 
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