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Discussion Starter #1
Let's start cutting through the arm chair warriors - how many rounds and how effective is your practice? Understandably, many on the this site have to shoot down rectangular ranges.
How can you make that situation as effective as possible and stay within the range rules?
Maybe it is time for many on this forum to consider making the $$$$ sacrifice and joining a real gun club.
In other words, who can say they really are able to train in real life, draw from concealed Carry positions?
Is it time for you to make a real commitment and join/drive the distance to a real outdoor club?
 

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Last month I shot over 2,500 rounds of 5.56, from a pretty much every position imaginable, from a couple of different weapon platforms. Some ranges were static with distances from 3-800 meters, and some were dynamic ranges with moving targets and maneuvers and all that good stuff.

Admittedly, I haven't gotten to shoot my beloved .45's since April, but I can't carry it in Hawaii, and they aren't even in this state. But I'm not sure I am your target demographic for this thread.

I think that once a shooter has the basics down of how to fire a weapon accurately on a static range, it is definately time to broaden their horizons, and start challenging themselves. Heck, if you can on your range, throw in like a minute or two of calisthenics, and then try to engage your targets. Odds are you won't be calm, cool and collected in a real gunfight.
 

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How many of you have at least shot a round off froma hip postiion? If you are on a static range, will a hip shot clear the bench in front of you? CAn you even place a target as close as 4 ft? What I am driving at is to join a club and get real experiential training. It is more important than the next gun purchase.
 

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Let's start cutting thruogh the arm chair warriors - how many rounds and how effective is your practise? Understandably, many on the this site have to shoot down rectangular ranges. How can you make that situation as effective as possible and stay within the range rules? Maybe it is time for many on this forum to comsider making the $$$$ sacrifice and joining a real gun club. In other words, who can say they really are able to train in real life, draw from concealed carrry positions? Is it time for you to make a real commitment and join/drive the distance to a real outdoor club?
Less than eight months ago, I was within 3 miles of one of my club's ranges. I went there twice a week at least, and most times, I was the only one there. Practice? You bet. From CC, the shotgun, anything I took to the range. $100 per year to be a member, and it's all worth every dime. Wife and I have been taking advantage of the steel challenge matches at the main range every month at a cost per match and a 120 mile round trip. The range is being re-worked as we speak, but has a 300yd rifle range I've taken advantage of before, and our club hosted a GSSF Glock challenge match two years in a row that I participated in last year as maybe a once in a lifetime opportunity. I've done USPSA matches on the club range as well, and I'm a better person and carrier than I ever thought about before. Since I belong to a large club in a large metropolitan area, I've got more people involved in the shooting sports, helped those who are new to the sport or carry, and taken a club affiliated NROI level 1 class which improves my understanding of the sport and further enhances me helping others as well as playing an active role in my club and the matches they hold. My club allows for me to bring non-member guests to the matches, and I've extended the invitation to anyone on the forum and some local LEO's to come on out and enjoy. Endorsing my local club some 60+ miles away now, I'd say it's the best thing money could buy in a year's time. heck...what I have, and my wife has done in the past three months and both improved and got more involved....I'd say it's pennies on a nearly priceless experience. We do the indoor ranges now and then more local, and we do one of the closest state funded public ranges when need be. But outdoor ranges really get you into things a bit more than just paying per use to shoot inside a box. either way...practice is good. Make of it what you will, or whatever you're able to do. No substitute for heating up your pistol......shedding some brass, and the smell of gunsmoke IMO. Outdoors is tops!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The point of my thread is to get forum members engaged. Guys, too many on this forum are not truly committed to get the truth about their practise habits examined. In other words. this is a call to get going. Commit. Join. Allow others to see what you really can do and improve from there. It is not about the next gun , it's about being quick and sure. Some of the prodigious posters on this forum have not shot 500 rounds in one year!
 

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This is a good idea, we all can use an honest look into this.

There was a time when I'd shoot at least 1k a month. I did that for about 5 years. No kidding. But that was when Glock and Beretta bought my ammo.

Now, I do about a 100 a month if I'm lucky. There are times that I'll do 500 to a thousand over a three or four day period, but those times are becoming more and more rare. Maybe twice a year. I've cut back a lot in my personal ammo expenditures due to ammo price and economy, my employer has done the same.

To be perfectly honest, I'm at the point where a high round count doesn't do me much good on the range. Most serious shooters are. I think it much more beneficial to practice the mechanics of everything and shoot 20 good, solid fundamental shots rather than simply burn ammo for the round count.

I'll shoot about a flat of shotgun shells between now and the new year.
 

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Actually...

I was the first shooter on the first course of fire in the first ever SANCTIONED IDPA match east of the Mississippi. I ran it with a Browning Hi-Power and used my defensive ammo (IIRC Federal Hydra Shok) to commemorate the occasion. I was the only guy who was using an SSP that day so I took 1st, 2nd and 3rd place! I've been at IDPA ever since although I don't play it as a "game" but rather as practice for the street, so I'm not real FAST. I don't care if I ever advance past the rank of "Marksman."

However, I pay much closer attention to procedurals and even closer attention to the comments of my fellow club members like (sssssshhhh don't tell him!) Miggy who is a superb RO and course designer. Graduated from the Marquis De Sade school of course design with HONORS, he did. Ask anybody in our club. Of course I'm an IDPA S.O. as well, but usually I exercise that when they really need me or they're short handed on Safety Officers, because Miggy, God Bless him, is acutely aware of my issues as a prior heat casualty and he refuses to let me run around on really fierce south Florida sunny days on the range so I usually help him with the scores under cover.

How many rounds you ask (rather curtly I might add)? As many as I feel like I need to. :king:The target below isn't the best but it was rapid fire at 21 feet and it's pretty standard for me; on any of my firearms. Except the M642 snubbie where I have to be closer, lol. That gun is about a 10 foot distance for a tight group locked in to a firing platform in point shoot mode with my elbows tight to my sides. Fixed sights, it's mugger deterrence, period. Mugger deterrence is close quarters.:image035: There another pic of a much better B27 target here on the forum but it won't let you post them more than once or I don't know how to do that. It's in this closed thread:
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/defensive-carry-guns/54450-im-new-help.html
 

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Currently, I try to shoot 100-200 rds p/mo. through my handguns and HD firearms. Prior to the economic downturn, I was shooting 1,000-2,000 rds p/mo. at 2-3 IPSC matches a month. Due to ammo availability and sheer expense, I have cut back until the economy gets better.
 

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The price of primers has reduced my shooting to 300-400 rds of center fire pistol rds a month. SASS/Western 3 gun and IDPA matches.

I am also shooting 500 Rds a month of .22 ammo. Sight picture, trigger control Etc all the same except for recoil.

USMC 0311 1961-1971 (SSGT Ret), Ex LEO, Range Safety officer, NRA Certified instructor (Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun) NRA Certified CCW Instructor Etc. I haven't been a Arm Chair Warrior in my memory :confused: :argue:
 

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I shoot at least once a week everything from handgun to SD shotgun to Full autos.Today I shot about 50 rounds 45 acp,100 rounds 40,100 rounds 9mm,150 rounds 22 LR,60 rounds 223 select fire short bursts,my indoor range has electric target hangers,I can shoot from 0 ft to 50 yards
 

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Let's start cutting through the arm chair warriors - how many rounds and how effective is your practice? Understandably, many on the this site have to shoot down rectangular ranges.
How can you make that situation as effective as possible and stay within the range rules?
Maybe it is time for many on this forum to consider making the $$$$ sacrifice and joining a real gun club.
In other words, who can say they really are able to train in real life, draw from concealed Carry positions?
Is it time for you to make a real commitment and join/drive the distance to a real outdoor club?
Not everyone can afford to shoot as much as you, or reload their own ammo, or join an outdoor club and make the drive to an outdoor range. And not everyone here lives in Florida or Hawaii where you can simply shoot outdoors all year round. I don't think it's right calling people armchair warriors because they can't do everything you do. If you have the means and the time to do all that, good for you.
 

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I think if you can afford to shoot at least one 50 round box, every payday and go for quality shots, you'll be ahead of the game of most shooters.

Actually if you can do that once a month, you'll be ahead. You can change up what drills you shoot at each session.

Shooting and marksmanship is a depreciable skill, and shooting a small amount every two weeks or once a month is a whole lot more productive than shooting a lot 2,3 or 4 times a year.
 

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Sixto says what many of us are thinking....

To be perfectly honest, I'm at the point where a high round count doesn't do me much good on the range. Most serious shooters are. I think it much more beneficial to practice the mechanics of everything and shoot 20 good, solid fundamental shots rather than simply burn ammo for the round count.
Sixto, you echo what many of us are thinking about the way in which the OP put this thread into words. I didn't much care for the manner in which he casually put a majority of the folks here into the "armchair warrior" profile of shooter. There are MANY real live warriors here as well as LEOs who put their rear ends on the line every single day. There are folks who've been handling firearms for so many years the number of muscle memory draws probably numbers in the tens of millions or more.

I'm a school teacher and the summer is ending. Next week the kids return and the grind begins again. This summer I doubt I have put more than 200 rounds downrange for myself. I have been too busy running ccw permit classes, critiquing technique and creating the valid templates for muscle memory actions in novice shooters who wish to become experienced sheepdogs to worry about my own level of practice BECAUSE I don't worry about my own level of practice. So I don't much appreciate the "armchair warrior" title applied anywhere on this board. The folks who're novice shooters want to become experienced shooters and sheepdogs probably don't much appreciate it either. Since I hate beating dead horse, I'll stop now.
 

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To be perfectly honest, I'm at the point where a high round count doesn't do me much good on the range. Most serious shooters are. I think it much more beneficial to practice the mechanics of everything and shoot 20 good, solid fundamental shots rather than simply burn ammo for the round count.
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Same here. High round count seems to yield diminishing return for the effort for me. Better to shoot a few with concentration than to mindlessly sling a lot of lead downrange.
 

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Not everyone can afford to shoot as much as you, or reload their own ammo, or join an outdoor club and make the drive to an outdoor range. And not everyone here lives in Florida or Hawaii where you can simply shoot outdoors all year round. I don't think it's right calling people armchair warriors because they can't do everything you do. If you have the means and the time to do all that, good for you.
:congrats: Let me start by saying. I LOVE TO SHOOT! I will shoot at anytime I get the opportunity. When I was working, our department took us through an intensive qualification process every six months. Of course, we used their ammo and got paid for the day. I'm now retired and can't tell you how much I miss those days at the range. If they called I'd be the firtst one to jump at the chance to shoot with them. However, I'm retired and on a great pension but a pension after all no matter how good, only goes so far. Can I afford the expense of joining a shooting club, driving all the way there spending a day shooting up a bunch of ammo every week or month? Maybe, but there always seems to be something else that comes up needing to be paid. Right now I'm allotted an hour once a week or so at an indoor range to shoot up a box or two and I just make the most of it. Many of us just have to settle for what we can manage to do.
 

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I shoot 600-800 9mm rounds a month. I have 3 IDPA match's a month and I hit the range once a week to get some practice. I reload so it helps with cost.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
There are some very cogent repsonses to the original question. Cleary, round count is not the importnt issue - placement and improving technique is. And yes, living in Florida does allow more outdoor time. The idea was to encourage exploring club membership and training. The annual cost to join most clubs here in Florida is the same as it would be to go to a public range once a month. If you volunteer for range safety officer time, you can earn enough credits to pay for your annual membership! Why the "arm chair" and other terse words - simply a way to get us thinking about training and improve involvement with other shooters. Most public ranges allow you to only shoot one round a second, no double taps, etc. Frankly, some of the rules are hazardous to your future health!
There is more focus on the web sites on equipment than there is on effective ways to train. If you carry concealed/open, legally, do you have an obligation to have some proficiency level? There are hundreds of thousands of CCW permit holders -our clubs should be over run with membership! This is a call to all of us, find out if there is a local club; investigate the real cost of membership. ARE there volunteer hours provided for cost credit?
 

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The only legal obligation to proficiency is what your state requires. Texas requires 70% of 50 shots from ranges of 3 to 15 yds. Beyond that, it is each persons call on what they choose to do for their training.

How one developes their proficiency can vary. Some choose to do dry fire drills, or use airsoft guns in their homes since they can't do range time. Some like to go out and shoot 1000s or rds a month, and others choose to do little or no additional training.

Which is right, well in my opinion it boils down to the individual. I am guessing that there are folks in this world that can put thousands of rounds down range and still can't shoot worth a darn because they learned bad techniques. And shooting at paper, or dynamic targets isn't going to change that one bit. Then you have folks that learned good techiniques when they started, and have adhered to those good practices, that even if they didn't shoot a gun for a year or more, would still be very effective.

Everyone is going to fall somewhere in between those extremes. Just remember shot placement is much more important than anything. If you can't hit what you shoot, I don't care how many rounds you shoot or what conditions you shoot them in, misses are still misses and may cost you dearly.

What is the old saying, practice makes perfect, well that isn't necessarily true. Good practice makes perfect, bad practice makes for expensive ammo bills.
 

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I normally wouldn't shoot that much in one session,but my shooting buddy is a range nut and we never leave in less than 2 hours,I reload so my cost for the ammo I shoot is about what 100 rounds of factory range ammo would cost.IOW my ammo is about 25% of the cost and availability is whatever I want to reload.Some people can afford a box a month and that is more than a lot of LEO's shoot
 
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