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In the several books on the Army's secret Delta force (after which the TV series "The Unit" is based), it is mentioned that they switched from using .45-cal pistols to 9mm.

I surmise that is because these guys are perhaps the best combat shooters in the world, shooting of millions of rounds in highly realistic practice scenarios. (Practice makes perfect.)

In that case, it makes little difference what caliber the round is that enters the perp's eye socket, but being able to carry 17 rounds instead of 6-8 does make a big difference.
 

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'Inside Delta Force' is more than a little dated. Haney was the first CSM for Delta. He's been retired for quite some time now. Nothing in that book should be considered current, by any stretch of the imagination.
 

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Tholzel said:
In the several books on the Army's secret Delta force (after which the TV series "The Unit" is based), it is mentioned that they switched from using .45-cal pistols to 9mm.

I surmise that is because these guys are perhaps the best combat shooters in the world, shooting of millions of rounds in highly realistic practice scenarios. (Practice makes perfect.)

In that case, it makes little difference what caliber the round is that enters the perp's eye socket, but being able to carry 17 rounds instead of 6-8 does make a big difference.
You are right,I did switch to a 9mm.:rolleyes:
 

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Avoid what you hear and learn about from the television shows like the plague. Most Special Operation Units such, Seal, Para Rescue, Force Recon..etc still issue slabsides in .45 Cal....or some other platform.
 

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Avoid what you hear and learn about from the television shows like the plague.
You forgot the internet as well....:smile:
 
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Just a side comment about the post ....Alot of people say " practice makes perfect " As a friend of mine says which i agree with .....' Practice makes Permament " the reason i think that if u train bad habits thats what u will learn bad habits.

Was kinda off the subject but i thought i would throw it in .
 

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Why are all the high speed low drag Marine special units going to the custom tricked out Kimbers and such? I don't know if I believe it.

If they weren't limited to ball ammo in the 9mm, I could Almost believe it.

They know from Afghanistan and Iraq what poor performer 9mm ball is.
 

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Lawrence Keeney said:
Why are all the high speed low drag Marine special units going to the custom tricked out Kimbers and such? I don't know if I believe it.

If they weren't limited to ball ammo in the 9mm, I could Almost believe it.

They know from Afghanistan and Iraq what poor performer 9mm ball is.
It's true that nothing beats the .45 in stopping a perp in his tracks--especially if you are not that great of a shot. But if--like the Delta Force guys--you are a perfect shot, able to hit your target time and again under all sorts of conditions--then it makes sense (to me) to carry more rounds rather than fewer, since an excellent shot with a 9mm round will kill a BG just as well as an excellent shot with a .45.
 

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Bud White said:
From what i understand they switch pistols and caliber for mission specific use
That's my understanding, too, and there must be a big list to choose from. I've heard everything from Glock 26 to HKP7M8 through 1911s and the big HK with the suppressor, based on a great opportunity I had a couple years ago to chat with some Navy Specwar guys. I got the impression that any of these kinds of experts could use about anything and get the job done.
 

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Why are all the high speed low drag Marine special units going to the custom tricked out Kimbers and such?
Det-1 ordered 100 Kimber, MEU(SOC) ordered 150 Springers.

General Information


Document Type: Special Notice
Solicitation Number: M67854-05-M-1038
Posted Date: Feb 15, 2005
Original Response Date: Mar 16, 2005
Current Response Date: Mar 16, 2005
Original Archive Date: Mar 31, 2005
Current Archive Date: Mar 31, 2005
Classification Code: 10 -- Weapons
Naics Code: 332994 -- Small Arms Manufacturing

Contracting Office Address
Department of the Navy, United States Marine Corps, Marine Corps Systems Command, 2200 Lester Street, Quantico, VA, 22134-5010
Description
This is notice of intended sole-source procurement on behalf of the Marine Corps Systems Command (MCSC). The procurement is for Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU), SOC .45 caliber pistol posted in accordance with FAR 5.101(a)(1).

The Marine Corps Systems Command (MARCORSYSCOM) intends to contract on a sole-source basis with Springfield Armory, 420 West Main Street, Geneseo, IL 61254 for MEU (SOC) .45 caliber pistol and associated packaging, marking and shipment. The following represents the governments intended parts list with quantities covered by this solicitation:

(1) PC9111MC: Professional 1911-A1 .45ACR pistols
Number: 150


The anticipated dollar amount is $284,850.00

Period of Performance: Date of Contract to 31 March 2005.
FOB: Destination
Delivery Point(s):

1. 75 pistols delivered to:
DODAAC: MMSA01
Marine Corps Logistics Base Albany, GA
Traffic Management Officer
MCLB Bldg 1221 Dr 20
MF FSD MMSA01 Weapons Whse 1340 Dr 9
Albany, GA 31704-5000

Attn: Mr. Willie Harris, (229) 639-5533

2. 75 pistols delivered to:
DODAAC: MMSA02
Marine Corps Logistics Base Barstow, CA
DLA and G MF MMSA02
Bldg 625 WE Yermo Annex
FSD MCLB
Barstow, CA 92311-5048

Attn: Ms Jane Sloat or Mr. Tony Marquez
Phone: 760-577-7345


Responsible sources capable of satisfying this requirement are encouraged to submit a statement of capability and costs, which, if timely received, will be considered. Information must be provided to the contact cited above not later than 3:00 PM (EST) 16 March 2005.
 

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Stopping Power

It's true that nothing beats the .45 in stopping a perp in his tracks--especially if you are not that great of a shot. But if--like the Delta Force guys--you are a perfect shot, able to hit your target time and again under all sorts of conditions--then it makes sense (to me) to carry more rounds rather than fewer, since an excellent shot with a 9mm round will kill a BG just as well as an excellent shot with a .45.
I like the points you make above but if I might add to it: There really is no such thing as stopping power except on television or in movies. Bullets punch holes and let the juices out. The bigger the bullet the bigger the hole. That's it! Always shoot for center of mass! Always put at least two on center to inflict the maximum damage, and always move afterward so your position is ever changing. Standing in one spot unloading mag after mag trying to get a head shot is akin to turning the gun on yourself! Don't do it and don't act like you are in a movie! As someone said earlier, perfect practice makes perfect. I have never heard that before but I have heard "Success is where preparation meets opportunity" and find that to be a very true statement. Plan and Prepare diligently and if the time ever comes for you to have to employ that plan your preparation will pay off! In reverse, you can have the biggest gun in the world but if you can't hit the broadside of a barn with it under the stress of incoming rounds you are not likely to be successful!
 

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You know his highness's birthday certificate was on the internet
does that not validate the internet.
 
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You forgot the internet as well....:smile:
You mean to tell us that the Interwebs might not be totally accurate? I simply cannot accept this, the Interwebs never contains false info.
 

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'Inside Delta Force' is more than a little dated. Haney was the first CSM for Delta. He's been retired for quite some time now. Nothing in that book should be considered current, by any stretch of the imagination.
I don't feel the need to get involved in the argument over what pistol special ops guys are using. It honestly has zero to do with what an armed citizen should use. When the pistol is backing up a rifle the criteria changes. But I do want to say that I really miss Paul. I didn't notice how old the thread was until I saw a comment from him. Kind of shocking to see it.
 

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I like the points you make above but if I might add to it: There really is no such thing as stopping power except on television or in movies. Bullets punch holes and let the juices out. The bigger the bullet the bigger the hole. That's it! Always shoot for center of mass! Always put at least two on center to inflict the maximum damage, and always move afterward so your position is ever changing. Standing in one spot unloading mag after mag trying to get a head shot is akin to turning the gun on yourself! Don't do it and don't act like you are in a movie! As someone said earlier, perfect practice makes perfect. I have never heard that before but I have heard "Success is where preparation meets opportunity" and find that to be a very true statement. Plan and Prepare diligently and if the time ever comes for you to have to employ that plan your preparation will pay off! In reverse, you can have the biggest gun in the world but if you can't hit the broadside of a barn with it under the stress of incoming rounds you are not likely to be successful!
YOu might should read the story of Alvin York. He took out seven men with seven shots. Each dead from one bullet. Started at the back guy and worked his way to the front man as they charged toward him. You might also read how the Germans complained their 9mm rounds were only injuring the US troops but the US guys were killing them with a single shot from their handguns.

I have seen a lot of dead men in my life and MOST of the one shot corpses were from .45 caliber guns even some Glock .45acp guns.
 
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