Why was it a "no knock"? Because a judge said it should be.
ETA: When we order a pizza and get the wrong toppings, do we blame the driver who delivered it or the guy who made it?

Breaking down your door, pistol whipping, and cuffing you is not a pizza delivery. With todays GPS, GSM remote cameras, etc you can get a photo sent to your computer of 'Jose the drug dealer' walking in the door.

 

But they all get to wear those cool, Rambo uniforms, and exercise their AUTHORITY!!!

 

mcp1810... Sir I tip my hat to your knowledge, and honesty.

Crowman... according to the available information this was not a wrong address. The subject had in fact lived there, and recieved mail there. IMO the police were absoloutly justified in their actions, and IMO to be commended for first obtaining a search warrant and making a controlled entry when they would have been totally correct in making a dynamic entry. The controlled entry being the safer method for both the police, and the people inside the premis. The subject was deemed a dangerous and violent individual who had proven himself by shooting another person earlier. This validates the "NO KNOCK" option on the warrant.

When serving search warrants, arrest warrants, or bench warrants (capias) there is usually the luxury of time in planning, and considering other avenues of apprehension or service. When searching for an individual who is known to be armed and dangerous there are other dynamics at work. One such constraint is time. Another being proximity. Time and space are limited, and require a different approach than lengthy investigational techniques.

If they knew where his car was to put on a "Wakenhut" they would probably have just arrested him there... or just watched the car in case he showed up.

I didnt see where anyone was pistol whipped.

RKflorida... The issue of a no knock is a bit confusing... even for some police who never have need to obtain one. The prociedure for obtaining a search warrant in itself is pretty daunting when done honestly and correctly. The "NO KNOCK" portion is an endorcement by a judge. Usually to obtain one the officer must convince the judge that either evidence will be destroyed, or there is a real and immenant danger to the officers, the subjects or the general public (neighbors). The real difference between a knock and announce search warrant and the no knock is about three seconds. The difference being knock, announce and breach... and breach and announce.

I am no fan of the militerization of the police. I believe it can only lead to a police society that will always be at odds with the general society, and removes control of the police from who they work for. The people. I think this is the greates threat today to our civil society. Were becoming communities with police for the sake of police. And Officer safety trumping constitutionally protected rights..... But not this time... This was probably some good police work.

 

From the original article



"So I went outside with my hands up, all kinds of red dots went on me and my heart dropped," said Steve.

Linda stayed behind, grabbed her cell phone and dialed 911. Meanwhile, Steve says he was outside letting deputies know exactly how he felt.

"I am yelling at them the whole time like, 'Why did you have to rip my door off? Why did you do that? Just say hey, the sheriff's department. The window was wide open. I would have came and opened it up for you.' They said 'Shut up!' and started shocking me," he said.

 

That's why he was tased.

I guess they didn't want to go hands on, but still it doesn't match one part of their force policy. Yet I know exactly what they are going to say if their force policy is mentioned if the guy decides to sue.

You see the taser falls under the 3rd category in their force chart which has two titles and they will justify it buy using the second part of the title which is "High risk". They will say they were in a high risk environment so they had to taser him.

 

Pitiful, land of the free? I think not. It must be nice to have a job with next to zero accountability and pretty much immune to lawsuits.

 

Huh?? I cant think of many people that get sued more than LEO's. I've been sued a few times. Never did a thing wrong, and the suits were all dropped before even making it to a trial. Still, its a total waste of my time to even have to think about it. I surely dont feel immune to lawsuits. People sue LEO's (and the attached municipality) all the time because they want a quick buck in a settlement.

My most recent true story:

I'm responding to a domestic violence call. I have to arrest a guy for whipping his wife. The media shows the video of me grabbing him, wrapping him up and dropping him to the ground. The "snap" you hear on the video as his arm breaks is quite loud. I get sloshed all over the media for brutality. Lawyers line up to take the guys case.

UNTIL: the public sees the first part of the video. The part that less than 2 seconds prior shows him punching me in the side of my head as I tell him to turn around and place his hands behind his back.

Yup. I was sued. Yup, the knucklehead and his attorney just wanted the city to settle so they could both get an easy pay day. I got lucky when the city didnt settle. Once they found out it would go to trial, it all went away.

It's a shame. LEO's are very far from immune to lawsuits. Granted some are absolutely warranted, but most are quite frivolous. It's what happens when a greedy knucklehead meets an overzelous attorney.

Zero accountability? Not even close. LEO's are in the public eye more than just about any other profession, and yes, are held accountable for their actions. You may not agree with what you THINK the outcome is (ya know, the outcome you read about in an online news article), but I assure you there is accountability. Accountability through the chain of command, the criminal court system, the civil court system etc...

 

Your right. If you "open up" you'll have x 5 as many incoming.

 

As soon as they identified themselves I would cooperated fully. The misidentification would have come out pretty quickly and I would put in the paperwork for damages and file a lawsuit with the intent to settle.

 

After a rough day defending all of the sheeps at the local mega mall, I usually head home to unwind. After finishing off the leftover donuts from the morning (there aren't usually leftovers, but in my line of work you have to be ready to move at a moments notice). I usually slip into a set of 5.11 tactical footy pajamas and wait for the pizza delivery guy. Even when relaxing you have to be ready to respond so that's why I carry a .50 AE Desert Eagle in a smart carry along with a slung Remington 870 set up for less than lethal engagements. Needless to say, any SWAT team tries to gain entry to my house and they are in for a surprise.

After being subdued by yours truly, those SWAT guys would have asked me what happened, where I came from and could I please cut the heavy duty tactical zip ties that bind them. After much admiration and pats on the back I would politlely refuse there many attempts to get me to sign on with them and teach them the way of the ninja.

 

I am no fan of the militerization of the police. I believe it can only lead to a police society that will always be at odds with the general society, and removes control of the police from who they work for. The people. I think this is the greates threat today to our civil society. Were becoming communities with police for the sake of police. And Officer safety trumping constitutionally protected rights..... But not this time... This was probably some good police work.

I just retired from 10 years as a sworn Police Chaplain. I spent a lot of time on police ethics because without ethics, police are no better than criminals. I agree 1000% with the first sentence. Police departments across the country are drifting more and more to this concept of a quasi-military force. Police officers are not the military. They have a purpose that is diametrically opposite of the military. The purpose of SWAT is not to make it easier to TAKE lives, but to make it easier to SAVE lives. Yet many departments encourage the uber-macho tactics and attitudes that invalidate their reason for existence.

Every life is important: officer, actor, and bystander. Military bearing does not convey to the public that the police are a civilian, life-protecting organization. Police departments risk losing the respect and cooperation of the communities they serve with greater reliance on military style dress and operations. I submit that officer safety is vital. However, if officer safety trumps everything else, then perhaps the officer should have chosen another line of work. Sorry this is off thread.

Was this good police work? Not in my opinion. Intelligence means just that. Bad intelligence has cost far more lives than anyone will ever admit. The heart of a no-knock warrant is intelligence. If time is of such importance in securing an actor that intelligence is not needed, then IMHO, the judge should never sign. But more than that, police supervisors should never allow the warrant to be sought.

Their actions in executing the warrant with what turned out to be faulty intelligence and resulting in the tasing of a non-actor, could have ended tragically. That no one was killed or critically injured is testimony that God still watches over the foolish. I would hope that any department conducting a raid that turned out like this one would be quick to offer apologies. That they sought to avoid any sense of propriety by filing bogus charges is clear evidence of a failing that begins at the very top levels of leadership.

What would I do in such a case? I'm not sure. I'm sickened every time I hear of these kinds of incidents.

 

It's a result of poor follow up work by the detective in charge of the case. Many hours of boring waiting and watching is what they get paid for. The information they provided was out of date and no one bother to check the expiration date on the milk.
I am sitting in my recliner reading posts and watching tv. My 9mm is sitting about two feet from me cocked and locked. I have one headphone in my ear listening to the scanner for any neighborhood mayhem. There was an H.I. a few blocks over a month back and a lady got mugged Saturday night at Wallyworld right down the street.
It would have been ugly here because the first thing they would have seen is me rising to my feet with my pistol in my hand.

 

I'd treat it like a home invasion unless otherwise since lots of criminals love to pose as law enforcement. Once you find out, then it's too late. Let that be known to any law enforcement to make sure they are going to the correct address. Otherwise, it's a mishap and lawsuit waiting to happen.

 

If a homeowner, who is not committing any illegal acts, should not be held responsible for harm done to any intruders regardless of their reason for breaking in. Most here believe that if a drunk neighbor mistakenly tries to break into your home in the middle of the night that you would be justified in protecting yourself. The fact he mistakenly was trying to get in the wrong home to go to sleep does not take away your right to self defense.
Why then should the fact that it is a government worker who is mistakenly trying to break in to the wrong house mean you do not have a right to defend your home, if you believe that those breaking in are bad guys intending to do you harm?

Michael

 

I hope I would show some self-restraint when all those pretty red dots began dancing around my chest, and wait until after the fact to launch my righteous indignation routine.

 

And if you honestly believed that the persons behind those red dots were bad guys who mean to do you harm you would not fight back?

Michael

 

Well this is terrible. Unfortunately, this would have ended with me dead likely, and some of the raiders injured. Hopefully they would not have continued their attack on my family after killing me.

 

I dont think our police dept has a swat team. I think they just prefer to do the good ol standoff. If they raided during the day, i already saw them and went outside to meet them, at night...the dog already alerted me and that would be a very stupid move on their part. If my kids were hurt by their actions...get my point?

These morons need to think it out. There might have been children involved. Cops hit the wrong house, hurt their father, charge him to cover it up...kid grows up kills cop during traffic stop...no good for you LEOs. Leave the military tactics to the military.

 

As far as I know correct me if I'm wrong law enforcement agencies have manipulated and changed the laws to the point that if you do not do exactly what they say immediately under any circumstance and at any location even your own house that you can be charge for resisting, resisting arrest, interfering, pretty much anything they want, even if you are 100% innocent , one cop told me that it doesn't make any difference what they are doing and that they can be 100% wrong in what they are doing, but regardless you still have to obey them 100% if you do not you are breaking the law, and then you can take it to court to prove you were innocent, which will cost you how much money, you have already paid for their attorney in your taxes

 

Go to injusticeeverywhere.com and read it for a few days, you will never look at any cop the same again.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^This would be equated^^^^^^^^^^

to painting all of humanity with a broad brush and saying just because I read a few stories about some criminals, we should throw everyone in the country out with the bathwater.
Not all police activity is criminal, but is sure seems as though in some areas of the country, they are acting with more and more impunity.

 

Secret Spuk, get real! If this was a controlled entry, what is a dynamic entry? Come in with guns blazing and kill every living thing ? There is no excuse for this. Ever heard of the fire dept. getting the wrong house? The blame doesn't rest completely on those who made the entry to the home, this was a planned event, many people were involved. Mistakes started at the top and went all the way to the entry team. No excuse for this. All involved should charged and brought to trial. I hope the people sue everybody involved and get 100 million dollars. An award like that would stop this crap from happening again, and if you consider this is "good police work" I hope your house is next. Then let us know your opinion.

 

Sir...

I have on other threads explained the difference between a controlled entry, and a dynamic entry. These are two different tools, each with their own place in police work. I dont recall anything in the artical about coming in with gun's blaizing. This wasnt a wrong house scenario. (Even the fire dept gets it wrong once in a while) While it was to some extent a planned event my opinion is there probably wasnt a whole ot of people involved. I stand by my statement that this happened the way it was supposed to happen. I believe the police investigators acted professionally, and legally.

My origonal post trashed the Officers involved with this incident. I was wrong. After doing some carefull reading and a bit of research I believe I got a much more clear picture of what happened. It's easy to trash the police when we dont like the outcome of their work. There have been and sadly will continue to be police using excessive force, and abusing citizens rights. I hate this as much as anyone. I believe that some departments and their officers are out of control. I think they should be held resonsible, and in some cases prosicuted. This just is'nt such a case in my opinion.

 

All I can say is all involved in this Home Invasion are Criminals & should be treated as such but none of them will ever pay for their crime.

Sorry if anyone tries to bust in my door they will be considered a threat & treated as such unless I am 100% they are not. Before anyone says the invaders are superman invincible & I will be murdered for defending my self I know I will be murdered.

 

I'd move to a better neighborhood.

 

I will just as soon as I win the Lottery.

Michael

 

Sounds like a REAL SCREW UP,,,,, who ever was in charge of this raid SHOULD BE FIRED....
but BECAUSE OF THE UNION ,,,,, PROBABLY WILL NOT,,,, could have been worse,,,,,
PEOPLE & OFFICERS COULD have been put DOWN. Two months is a long time to ass u me
the BG still lived at the address.

 

^ I was not commenting on this case. I was commenting on another post that stated LEO's have a job free from lawsuit and consequence.

 

No problem I don't take post personal I just post my honest opinion at the time & have no problem revising my opinion if warranted.

 

Home alarm system cameras can record to a remote server. Bad cops could impound your DVR, but video they cannot retrieve could end up on the evening news. Despite what some people say, I believe a good attorney would have a great day with a case like this.

 

I don't worry too much about criminals , its the cops I worry about. Seems to me, they pull the gun and depend on it, too much.

 

The news media just makes it seem that way. We see things on the news and think that they are happening everyday in our local neighborhoods. As far as I can find out there has not been a killing in my small town in nearly a hundred years. Yet if you talk to the folks who live here and watch the news everyday you would think crime is running rampant.

Michael

 

I dont know of any situation where a police officer or department is immune from criminal, or civil sanctions. If someone knows of such a situation please share it... Thank you.