[2ndAmend]

Last week on my way to my hunting club I stopped at a gas station to get some ice and drinks for the day.

After purchasing my goods I returned to my truck and opened the driver side door (both doors were locked). After putting the stuff on the driver side seat I went to the back of my truck to put the ice in the cooler.

A few seconds after I opened the cooler a man approached on the passenger side of the truck and started asking me for money. I nicely told the man (he looked as though he was high on something and a little waked out) no I didn’t have any cash on me. He again asked if I had any money and began trying to open the passenger door. I again told him I had no cash and told him to go away. The scariest part was I had my shotgun on the passenger seat loaded as I always do on the way to hunt. He began to get agitated and trying harder to open the door. I told him again in a loud tone to go away and stop pulling on the door. When he did not comply I garbed the shotgun and pointed it at him through the window.

Needless to say he looked at me and then the shotgun and very quickly walked away.

It seemed like the best thing to do at the time but now thinking about it I believe I could have handled it differently. Can I get some feed back on what if anything I could have done different?:boese51:

 

[bryman]

i think you did the right thing. you gave him 2 chances to go away...........third time is a charm!! your vehicle is your property..you felt that you and your property were being threatened. i think you handled it in a manner that even a police officer would have agreed. now grabbing the gun right off and chasing him or something is a different story. it seems you kept your cool, and i think keeping your cool, is the way to always coming out on top of the situation.

 

[Arko]

Seems largely appropriate and defensible to me based on your post. My only question would be:
Did you leave the loaded shotgun in plain sight in the cab while in the store? That scares me a little, but has nothing to do with your response to the man.

 

[2ndAmend]

Seems largely appropriate and defensible to me based on your post. My only question would be:
Did you leave the loaded shotgun in plain sight in the cab while in the store? That scares me a little, but has nothing to do with your response to the man.

I normally keep it behind my seat until I arrive at the club. On that day I hurriedly set it on the passenger seat. When I arrived at the store I realized what I had done. Instead of pulling it out and sticking it behind the seat (didnt want anyone to see it) I covered it with a large green sweat shirt. To any passer bys it would have just looked like a shirt sitting on the seat. I know I should not have had it in the front but everyone makes mistakes, I have learned and take better precaution now.

 

[Arko]

Not beating you up 2nd, I was just curious about that point, and wondered if you had given it thought. Apparently, you have!:bier:

 

[gdm320]

Not beating you up 2nd, I was just curious about that point, and wondered if you had given it thought. Apparently, you have!:bier:

I had a similar question. I keep my hunting/sport shooting weapons secured in my hard-sided locking storage cases in the back of my 4Runner under the cargo cover so if I stop for food, gas, or whatever I won't have them unsecured.

It sounds like you handled the situation very well though. Ultimately, he was trying to get into your vehicle and at you and apparently was very agitated. You gave him a chance and he didn't take it.

 

[nedrgr21]

Just slowly drive away?

Don't know about SC, but in MO it's illegal to have a loaded long gun in the passenger compartment - even with a CC permit, which only applies to concealable weapons. A game warden could also get you for road hunting, whether they saw you actually do something or not.

 

[10thmtn]

Yo no hablo 'english'

Drive away...:wave:

 

[F350]

Just slowly drive away?

Don't know about SC, but in MO it's illegal to have a loaded long gun in the passenger compartment - even with a CC permit, which only applies to concealable weapons. A game warden could also get you for road hunting, whether they saw you actually do something or not.

Wrong there; I have a letter from the Attorney General's office saved on my home computer stating that because the CCW language says just plain old "firearm" loaded long guns ARE covered. The non-CCW car carry language specifically says "concealable firearm" so without a CCW illegal.

The state game laws are where you could run into trouble, not sure and would have to look it up.

 

[2ndAmend]

Just slowly drive away?

I wasn’t in my truck at the time. I was standing next to the bed trying to put ice in my cooler. This all happened in just about a minute, didn’t have much time to react.

I hunt in the sticks and with a couple of local LEOs, its not very uncommon for the hunters to travel with their rifles/shotguns loaded in the truck. Not to worried about the game warden either spoken to him on many occasions and he has seen the shotgun in the truck loaded no problem there.:hand10:

Here in SC 12" barrels or longer are not considered cancelable.

 

[Gideon]

I don't know all the laws involved but the practice of carrying a loaded gun on the way to hunt or target shoot is a gross safety violation.

Either we're carrying concealed a ccw weapon which means it's on or it's a hunting gun and shouldn't be loaded until we're in the field. Even if you're legally carrying concealed you'd never want to leave your loaded gun in the car while your out of it.

As far as presenting to the guy to scare him off, you told him what to do and he advanced and you presented a loaded weapon. I suppose you may have wanted to call the police to report the incident.

Again, I think you need to really think about the carrying the gun "loaded as you always do" on the way to the hunt. Thats a very very risky behaviour.

I am glade it worked out as it did for you.

 

[steelhawk]

I don't know all the laws involved but the practice of carrying a loaded gun on the way to hunt or target shoot is a gross safety violation.

Either we're carrying concealed a ccw weapon which means it's on or it's a hunting gun and shouldn't be loaded until we're in the field. Even if you're legally carrying concealed you'd never want to leave your loaded gun in the car while your out of it.

As far as presenting to the guy to scare him off, you told him what to do and he advanced and you presented a loaded weapon. I suppose you may have wanted to call the police to report the incident.

Again, I think you need to really think about the carrying the gun "loaded as you always do" on the way to the hunt. Thats a very very risky behaviour.

I am glade it worked out as it did for you.

I can't speak for the other guy, but when I am hunting, and driving from place to place, I have the rifle loaded, but none in the chamber.

My procedure is to empty the chamber, close the bolt while releasing the firing pin. Then I load the bullets into the magazine well. It can't go off, but can be ready in an instant. When I reach my hunting area, I throw the bolt and put the safety on. When I am ready to get back into the truck, I open the action, push the round down into the magazine, then close the action making sure a round doesn't get chambered.

 

[Eagleks]

yes.,..... I would never have a loaded shotgun in the passenger seat of the truck.

 

[ItsMyRight2]

Looking at it from both sides(yours&law).

I would have to say bad call. And I say that because ....... you had a loaded shotgun sitting on your passenger seat, which is probably illegal in your state. And I also believe you had many other options before you pointed a loaded firearm at the man. You should only draw on someone if its your LAST choice. And you said you self you pointed it at him through the window....meaning you were in the vehicle. so you did have other choices.

If anyone had seen that you could have been arrested for reckless display at the least.

 

[Arko]

Looking at it from both sides(yours&law).

I would have to say bad call. And I say that because ....... you had a loaded shotgun sitting on your passenger seat, which is probably illegal in your state. And I also believe you had many other options before you pointed a loaded firearm at the man. You should only draw on someone if its your LAST choice. And you said you self you pointed it at him through the window....meaning you were in the vehicle. so you did have other choices.

If anyone had seen that you could have been arrested for reckless display at the least.

I believe he moved from standing next to the bed of the truck to standing next to the cab/door, and reached in, while standing for the shot gun. It appears to me he feared that the subject might gain control of the gun, or vehicle, and further he could argue he was already in fear of his safety at the time.
Sounds reasonable to me, minus having left the gun un attended.

 

[ItsMyRight2]

I believe he moved from standing next to the bed of the truck to standing next to the cab/door, and reached in, while standing for the shot gun. It appears to me he feared that the subject might gain control of the gun, or vehicle, and further he could argue he was already in fear of his safety at the time.
Sounds reasonable to me, minus having left the gun un attended.

The law isn't as understanding as you and I. It would of all come back to "Why was the shotgun on the front seat?" If you give them any tiny thing they will turn it all around on you. It sucks but the law only looks at the black and white.

And I also live in a place with tons of beggars..and yes they can get REALLY AGGRESSIVE. But you just cant shoot em or draw on em. :twak:

 

[Arko]

Again, if he feared for his safety it was justifiable. He did not paint it to sound like he was just an annoyance he wanted to scare off.

And location means alot. Where he is in his rural SC area, the shotgun on the seat may not actually be a big deal in court, whereas, say in Central Nashville, it certainly would.

I don't condone the SG on the seat, bit I feel you may viewing this through a pretty narrow lens.

 

[BikerRN]

Looking at it from both sides(yours&law).

I would have to say bad call. And I say that because ....... you had a loaded shotgun sitting on your passenger seat, which is probably illegal in your state. And I also believe you had many other options before you pointed a loaded firearm at the man. You should only draw on someone if its your LAST choice. And you said you self you pointed it at him through the window....meaning you were in the vehicle. so you did have other choices.

If anyone had seen that you could have been arrested for reckless display at the least.

I will have to agree.

In short, what actions by the "aggressive panhandler" constituted a threat to your safety and possible imminent demise?

Just because someone may do something, in this case grab the shotgun your carelessly left there without properly securing, does not justify lethal force. I'm not trying to beat you up over this matter, but rather trying to show you how the other side may portray it. Having been mirandized before, as well as having been under investigation does tend to color one's judgement.

Biker

 

[2ndAmend]

Hey thanks for the feed back. As I posted before I don’t make it a habit of setting my shotgun in the passenger seat until I arrive at my hunting club (we run dogs so we have our shotguns at hand), it stays behind my seat until I am ready to hunt. As for fearing for my life, at the time I was frightened due to the aggressiveness of the individual.

On a side note: I found out yesterday afternoon from a local LEO that I was talking to about the situation that the man I pointed my shotgun at is a convicted felon. He was convicted of car jacking, kidnapping and rape. Had I known this prior I would have been a little more frightened.

 

[BDKnow]

There's no other way to deal with a situation like that. Chasing would have the worst thing possible. I say bravo and always make sure doors are locked, one slip and he would have been able to get to your gun.