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As I already said, any further research will be yours to do. You posted a statement as fact that didn't seem right...I researched and found what I thought you'd read...and asked for your cite. You provided the cite, and your author didn't say or claim anything close to what you stated. He used four stories that were, by his own words easy to come up with, and was completely factual about the results. Your own source disputes your statement. There is no debate.
Uggh, the research as far as you and I know is complete. There has been no one that has been able to confirm one more instance where it was effective nor one instance where it was not.
You can certainly try, and if you succeed I will gladly say I was wrong, until then nope. If you can find four instances where it wasn't successful then we can debate as to its merits.

Esse quam videri
 

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Your author himself stated it was NOT complete research, and WHY it was not complete. He was reporting FOUR easily found stories. You turned that into a statement of fact that you posted and that statement is not true. You have proven, by your cited article, that it is not true. Quit while you're behind, nobody wants the debate.
 

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That's what I did with my .40 High Power - .40 for when I need it and .357Sig for those woods walks when appropriate.
Oh - And if I'm going somewhere where I **Expect** to encounter dangerous animals I'm doing one of two things 1) Taking a long gun 2) Not going
 

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I'm an experienced hunter. Most "experienced" hunters will tell you a 223 is too small for deer, yet given the right ammo it will blow a 2" hole thru a deer. Hence me not caring so much about "conventional" wisdom as it is colored heavily with anecdotal experience and "my hunting buddy says" or "my daddy said" nuggets of knowledge.
I will look up the study and post it here later.

Esse quam videri
From what I understand, the 5.56mm, and .223, are used fairly commonly in Texas for deer, hogs, and javelina. Those calibers are not legal in Virginia for big game.
 

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Why stop, you can shoot a 454 Casul and when you want to step it up and go with a 460 S&W.
I've never fired nor have I ever been around a .454 Casull when it has been fired, as far as I can remember. I have been on a range when someone had an SSK hand cannon (single shot breach loader) in .338 Winchester as I recall. That was something to see... and hear (thank God for ear protection).
 

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Question: When we talk about the term "bear defense", are we talkng about taking one down and dead with 1-2 shots? Or are we talking about hitting it with enough rounds that it goes away and doesn't bother us anymore, whether it dies or not?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
 

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Question: When we talk about the term "bear defense", are we talkng about taking one down and dead with 1-2 shots? Or are we talking about hitting it with enough rounds that it goes away and doesn't bother us anymore, whether it dies or not?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
Let's put it this way. Shot placement. There are numerous one shot takedowns with 357 mag. However, a poor shot with a 50 BMG and the critter can walk away.
 

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From what I understand, the 5.56mm, and .223, are used fairly commonly in Texas for deer, hogs, and javelina. Those calibers are not legal in Virginia for big game.
Yup pretty common in some areas, banned in others. Mostly from ignorance and outdated perceptions. There are some states that have a minimum kinetic energy threshold...weird.
 

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If you look up the number of life threatening encounters with grizzlies/brown bear where the person is armed with a pistol you will see that the success rate for 9mm is 100%....it is for a few different calibers as well.
Granted I personally have never had to shoot a grizzly/brown bear, but have on many occasions taken black bear with no problems.
The numbers are in direct opposition to your anecdotal experiences.

Esse quam videri

Good luck to ya......
 

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I just finished reading through the whole thread and all of that back and forth over what to carry or shoot in bear or hog country gave me a damn headache! :vs_mad:
 

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Gunnie or available loads for the 40sw but a 180gr 357sig at 1050 from a 4.5" barrel; . Maybe a test barrel . I chronograph some of there 357mag and 44mag in the past and they most use a test barrel as sure not close to advertised velocity and those were from a tight gapped 8" DW revolver too . Oh our sheriffs department carry glocks in 357sig . They have to dispatch the deer the occasional black bear and after calling one officers I know well , sold him a house , he said he will no longer use his pistol to finish a deer or bear and pulls out a slug gun . There was a time they carried 40sw with a few carrying 45acp and no issues back then finishing game guickly . They have tried that 180 DT load back around 2012 just so they would know how it worked if they found a need for a heavier penetrating load and had enough fast fire feed issues to stop testing it ! And life goes on .

bad bod an flintlock you have your opinion and I have mine . Just don't assume the 357sig as all that specially with the lite bullets . There's far better cartridge choices than 357sig for "woods walks " . but then I've carried and loaded a 40sw since '90 .
 

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I carry my 649 more often in the winter months. Even with the 2 1/4" barrel the .357 mag Speer GD have a pretty good pop,might give me little more penetration.
 

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I just finished reading through the whole thread and all of that back and forth over what to carry or shoot in bear or hog country gave me a damn headache! :vs_mad:
I just read the title, then came to the last page. I'm guessing I didn't miss much.
 

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Gunnie or available loads for the 40sw but a 180gr 357sig at 1050 from a 4.5" barrel; . Maybe a test barrel . I chronograph some of there 357mag and 44mag in the past and they most use a test barrel as sure not close to advertised velocity and those were from a tight gapped 8" DW revolver too . Oh our sheriffs department carry glocks in 357sig . They have to dispatch the deer the occasional black bear and after calling one officers I know well , sold him a house , he said he will no longer use his pistol to finish a deer or bear and pulls out a slug gun . There was a time they carried 40sw with a few carrying 45acp and no issues back then finishing game guickly . They have tried that 180 DT load back around 2012 just so they would know how it worked if they found a need for a heavier penetrating load and had enough fast fire feed issues to stop testing it ! And life goes on .

bad bod an flintlock you have your opinion and I have mine . Just don't assume the 357sig as all that specially with the lite bullets . There's far better cartridge choices than 357sig for "woods walks " . but then I've carried and loaded a 40sw since '90 .
I never said that the same ammo you used for SD was suitable for when you are on the menu. I never said the 357 Sig was the best for that either. The OP is in southern Ill........BIG difference from being where humans are on the menu.

For what its worth my 357 Sig carry load is Underwood's 115 grn JHP @ 1600 fps. It is not for woods carry. For "woods" carry I carry a a 44 magnum with heavy hardcast.
 
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