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Danged if I can remember a thread link from last year - where I tackled the subject of the ''Macho CCW'' - no matter.

One or two recent threads tho have raised this aspect again and I just want to impress on all new and pending CCW folks - the importance of being very much ''non-macho''.

I promote responsible CCW at every opportunity but at the same time want always to stress the fact that this is not a macho deal at all. Yes, it is a right - yes it is wise and sensible - but it most certainly is NOT an ego booster nor should it be.

I think it was Ensane today who posted about an idiot who was the personification of the ''macho'' carry guy. The sort we least want in our ranks, as I prefer to promote responsibility and low-key aspects. I want the anti's to see law abiding folks as just that - law abiding and no threat.

This is pretty much preaching to the choir but I feel is periodically worthy of a reminder. We take responsibility for our own protection and of those close to us - but it is by default almost an awesome responsibility in and of itself.

Not to overstate the case but anyone who carries has the power of life and death on their hip - even if that sounds melodramatic!

Be safe, stay safe and be responsible.
 

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P95 I would love to shake your hand, I hate the wanna be LEO's, not good and they need to grow up. Carrying a weapon, is a huge responsibility and should be treated as such, which most of us on this site do. But, sometimes, you get a bad apple, that gives, we in the carrying community, a black eye.
 

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I really think for most of us on this board anyway, having a concealed weapon makes us more even tempered. I know for me I ignore things now I may have argued over in the past. It is not worth it. Let it go.
 

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A worthy reminder Chris.
Not too many of those types on our forum.
Thank our lucky stars on that.
There are some on the other gun boards though & usually they turn out to be the worst qualified of the defensive gun carry folks. An overcompensation for poor defensive shooting skills I think.
 

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country85 said:
I really think for most of us on this board anyway, having a concealed weapon makes us more even tempered. I know for me I ignore things now I may have argued over in the past. It is not worth it. Let it go.
Very well put country85....

Packing heat is a big responsibility

 

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+1 Chris and Country85

I even drive more slowly now that I carry. Weird, huh? Not that I was ever living on the edge :) but it's certainly had a mellowing effect.
 

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Packing should make us almost painfully respectful and polite. Part of a whole outlook on personal defense in my book is to stay "under the radar" as much as possible. Be the unnoticed one who dosn't stand out for any reason. Just another average Joe who, if contact is made, just seems to be a nice polite person but nothing unusual. Threaten me or mine and that illusion can change, rapidly, however.

I wish this was hammered into all applicants heads. It certainly helps when you hear the expression "You carry? But you're such a nice guy!" That's only happened once as a close friend found out, I don't exactly let people know. But my point to him was, exactly, it's nice polite respectful folks who usually carry. Not uber whacko, macho movie wanna be's.

Eric
 

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country85 said:
I really think for most of us on this board anyway, having a concealed weapon makes us more even tempered. I know for me I ignore things now I may have argued over in the past. It is not worth it. Let it go.
That, a few more years and a family, all helped me settle down.
I guess it's best called responsability.
 

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+1, Chris.
 

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An occasional reminder of important things is always welcome.
 

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Robert Heinlein, the late science fiction writer, put it simply, "An armed society is a polite society." Part of what makes us polite, respectful, and even tempered is the responsibility that we bear by having a weapon on our person. Another part of what causes us to be that way is the realization that any person we come in contact with could be carrying as well. Sheeple never see this and sometimes engage in behavior that we find stupid and repugnant. They think that they are safe and that the state (meaning national, state, and local governments) is there to protect them. Then they are surprised for a few seconds :aargh4: when they overstep the bounds of propriety and someone who knows the score responses with force.

Chris, good thread and a very good reminder. Something that I work on not just because I carry, but also because it is sensible it: to quit fighting battles that aren't worth winning. Like Country85 said:

I know for me I ignore things now I may have argued over in the past. It is not worth it. Let it go.
 

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Safety; Safety; Safety. First, Last and Always. There is absolutely no room for ego. When I carry, which is when I am awake, I do not want the world looking at me and my arms. I wish to appear so "normal" as to attract the attention of no one, no way, no how.
 

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country85 said:
I really think for most of us on this board anyway, having a concealed weapon makes us more even tempered. I know for me I ignore things now I may have argued over in the past. It is not worth it. Let it go.

The 1st time I drove to the range with my handgun next to me, I gave more space between cars, drove slower, and generally had a more relaxed attitude behind the wheel.

I HAD been one to get a small case of road rage every now and again. With a deadly weapon next to me, I knew I could not let my temper or furstration come into play. Its not worth it and its my responsibility to keep a level head.

This is when I realized how CC'ing would be. I can't be a superhero or a tough guy. I can't get caught up in some BS like a bar fight or random shouting match with another driver.
 

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I am ten times more calm, cool and collective where I would have got upset at bad drivers I just smile and wave now.
 

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KC - the link for editorial seems to be a no go today. :frown: Any link direct to the article?
 

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P95Carry said:
KC - the link for editorial seems to be a no go today. :frown: Any link direct to the article?
There has been a lot of space devoted in the Stopping Power Message Board and other message boards to the presentation of hypothetical situations and a request for solutions. The problem with such imaginary situations is that there is none of the untidiness and ambiguity that exists in the real world.

Please understand that I’m not ridiculing those who present such situations or those who attempt to solve them. I consider those who post on this board as friends I haven’t met yet. As your friend I feel a moral responsibility to share my observations based on my actual experiences in real incidents. I don’t want to see good guys and gals get their selves in a jam by jumping into situations that are unclear and fraught with danger.

Let me be perfectly frank. Those who think that intervention will bring fame, honors, glory, etc., are delusional. I once prevented the rape of a woman by butt stroking her attacker with a shotgun while he was in the act of penetrating her. Weeks later she made an excessive force complaint against me. She thought I should have been more restrained in my behavior! On another occasion, my partner and I chased a holdup man into a store where he took a woman hostage. He then threatened to kill her (he had just shot two people in a bank and we believed him!). My partner shot the bad guys three times. One of those bullets slightly grazed the woman’s finger and she sued us for endangering her!

If the rescued individual doesn’t make life miserable for you in the courts, they just might kill you. I’m aware of four instances where officers responded to a domestic violence situation and when the wife realized the breadwinner was going to jail she assaulted and killed her would-be rescuers.

My Tac Unit partner and I backed up a precinct unit on a domestic assault arrest. As the husband was being handcuffed the wife disappeared down the hallway. I motioned to my partner and we followed her down the hall with guns drawn. We found her in the bedroom loading a Winchester .30-.30 lever action rifle. We quickly disarmed and cuffed her. As we brought her into the living room a precinct sergeant ordered us to let her go. When we refused to do so, he attempted to remove her from our custody. When told him that if he didn’t back off we would arrest him, he left to complain to our supervisors.

If ingratitude isn’t enough we need to understand that things are almost never what they seem. What appears to be a car jacking may be the attempt by a father to recover a child from a noncustodial mother. Our intervention may not only be ill advised but we may be acting in violation of a court order. The fact that we are unaware of a court order will not save the day.

Even if the situation is exactly as it appears and you’re even in accordance with the law, you need to understand one simple fact-the law is what the local prosecutor says it is. Do you really want to spend 7 years in jail waiting for an appeal to be heard and your conviction overturned?

I once got sued for in excess of $100,000 for handcuffing a suspect. The city settled out of court even though my actions were totally legal. Anybody who read about this settlement in the paper would assume I was guilty of inappropriate behavior or some illegality. The city paid the settlement and provided legal counsel. Had I been acting as a private citizen I would have subjected my family to decades of poverty in order to pay the judgment and attorney fees.

Situations that involve significant injury or death are frightenly expensive. My partners and I were sued for $17.5 million dollars in the fatal shooting of a holdup man. The legal fees alone would have run into seven figures. We were accused of being blood thirsty, trigger-happy racist cops. The media conveniently forgot we had intervened in the severe beating and robbery of an elderly woman.

All that being said and experienced, I continued to intervene. However, people should be reminded I was a cop-it was my job. I spent 20 years going in harms way for total strangers. Would I do that today? Probably not. I no longer have the deep pockets of the City of Detroit behind me. Sound callous? Well, would you be willing to jeopardize everything you own and your family’s security for a total stranger? Would you be willing to lose your home, your cars, and your retirement to play Knight of the Round Table?

Apparently some people are certainly willing to fantasize about intervening in a hypothetical situation. Some may consider this harmless musing, but I find it troubling. Tactical planning involves assessing all the potential problems carefully and realistically looking at the cost of such intervention. Role-playing or gaming looks at it through rose colored glasses and ignores the cold hard reality of a person’s involvement in a deadly force event.

I carry a gun to protect myself and the people I love from the Monsters that roam the earth. When I’m away from those that mean everything to me, I carry so I can return to them. Are there circumstances where I would intervene to help a stranger? Yes, but such intervention would be on my terms at my pace. I am not going to jump into a situation with gun drawn.

Rather I would seek cover and carefully evaluate the totality of the circumstance. When I was convinced I knew what is really going on I would respond with the minimum amount of force necessary whether that required drawing my cell phone or my pistol. If all we have is a pistol we have severely limited options. I carry three pistols, oc, cell phone, and a flashlight, and I am a PPCT Defensive Tactics Instructor. I am willing and trained to respond with the appropriate level of force even if that is “only” a command voice. I understand the force continuum and know what the appropriate level force is in a given situation. Ignorance of such critical parameters can have horrific consequences.

Those who think the mere display of a weapon will stop hostilities are naïve in the extreme. The same people we will be confronting know what an appropriate level of force is and when we make outlandish or unjustified threats we’ll show our true colors. These people can tell when we’re serious and we will quickly find ourselves disarmed and in real trouble.

Again, we need to avoid rushing in where Angels fear to tread. Remember the most endangered species is good guys and gals. Go with God.

Evan

there you go or better chris lol

direct url is http://www.stoppingpower.net/editorials/editorial_dangers_in_intervention.asp
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Bob - many thx :smilez:
 
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