Defensive Carry banner

Can a bullet setback cause a KA-BOOM?


  • Total voters
    53
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Battered Bullets: Does bullet setback matter? | The Daily Caller

Andrew Tuohy is a contributor and experimenter for LuckyGunner Labs and he tested bullet setback to over .35' setback. None of his bullets failed to feed or caused a KA-BOOM. .35'+ setback is a severe setback and it still did not cause a kaboom in a 40 S&W cartridge the most widely perceived cartridge to cause a kaboom considering its already a high pressure round without using +P ammo which this author used. He used speer gold dots.
I would like to see any conclusive tests that have show and/or proven that a bullet setback can cause a kaboom because in all of my research I haven't found any.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
329 Posts
Yes. I do believe bullet setback will cause or contribute to a kaBOOM.

Catastrophic Failure of Semiautomatic Handguns [Glock]
10mm Glock KaBoom - >>> UPDATE: PISTOL RETURNED <<< - AR15.COM

Maybe you skipped a part of the article.

Why did this happen?

Well, Glock has revised the barrel since the early “unsupported chambers” which left the pistol with such a bad reputation, and they also beefed up the frame since the earliest iterations of the .40 S&W. And while certain powders, when used in .40, can cause dangerous pressure spikes, manufacturers of commercial ammunition wisely test and select powders that are not as susceptible to changes in temperature or, obviously, bullet setback.

So while I’m not saying that you should attack your ammunition with hammers, I am saying that you should not fear tiny amounts of bullet setback with commercial ammo – at least when it comes to pistol cartridges like the .40 S&W, and especially when you consider that some factory ammo has a natural variation in overall length that does not result in a dangerous condition.
A kB only happens when the brass cannot contain the cartridge pressures and bursts. Different cartridges and powders have different pressures and pressure spikes. If you have the right combination, with setback (which drastically increases pressures) with less than ideal case head support, the brass will burst. If the brass cannot burst, there will not be a kB.

I don't know what you're trying to argue about or prove.

There's a reason there aren't a lot of people testing if bullet setback will blow up their gun. Are you thinking about giving it a try? Go on, I believe in you. :rolleyes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Yes. I do believe bullet setback will cause or contribute to a kaBOOM.

Catastrophic Failure of Semiautomatic Handguns [Glock]
10mm Glock KaBoom - >>> UPDATE: PISTOL RETURNED <<< - AR15.COM

Maybe you skipped a part of the article.



A kB only happens when the brass cannot contain the cartridge pressures and bursts. Different cartridges and powders have different pressures and pressure spikes. If you have the right combination, with setback (which drastically increases pressures) with less than ideal case head support, the brass will burst. If the brass cannot burst, there will not be a kB.

I don't know what you're trying to argue about or prove.

There's a reason there aren't a lot of people testing if bullet setback will blow up their gun. Are you thinking about giving it a try? Go on, I believe in you. :rolleyes:
http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/general-firearm-discussion/137372-re-chambering-rounds-safety-notice.html

"resulting in as many as 100 chambering and extracting cycles. This caused an internal failure of the primer, not discernible by external inspection."

As I stated in my OP I have yet to see a conclusive study that proves rechambering a round will cause a kaboom. There is no doubt that it can cause failure to fires but I haven't seen a case where it was proven to have caused a kaboom in handgun factory ammunition. I'm not saying that it's impossible but what I have seen is that it's quite rare if it does happen at all, and that what's most likely to happen is a failure to fire.

In fact many people on this board and other forums talk about how if they see a round/measure a round that has a setback they will not use it in there carry gun for self defense and take it out to the range to use it......and out of the 100s of people who have done this on the forums not a single time has there gun blown up with rounds that they knew had a setback! My point is if it does happen its extremely rare and/or does not happen with factory ammunition. .35'+ setback in a 40 S&W and does not fail to fire or go kaboom is a a pretty good indication that this kaboom theory is borderline a myth and/or extremely rare.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
8,501 Posts
http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/general-firearm-discussion/137372-re-chambering-rounds-safety-notice.html

"resulting in as many as 100 chambering and extracting cycles. This caused an internal failure of the primer, not discernible by external inspection."

As I stated in my OP I have yet to see a conclusive study that proves rechambering a round will cause a kaboom. There is no doubt that it can cause failure to fires but I haven't seen a case where it was proven to have caused a kaboom in handgun factory ammunition. I'm not saying that it's impossible but what I have seen is that it's quite rare if it does happen at all, and that what's most likely to happen is a failure to fire.

In fact many people on this board and other forums talk about how if they see a round/measure a round that has a setback they will not use it in there carry gun for self defense and take it out to the range to use it......and out of the 100s of people who have done this on the forums not a single time has there gun blown up with rounds that they knew had a setback! My point is if it does happen its extremely rare and/or does not happen with factory ammunition. .35'+ setback in a 40 S&W and does not fail to fire or go kaboom is a a pretty good indication that this kaboom theory is borderline a myth and/or extremely rare.
I guess the reality, for me, is that it's not worth risking damage to my gun or losing a few fingers just to save a 15 to 25 cent round that is known to be defective. My gun is worth about $600 and my hand is priceless. To me, the safe play is to just throw it away.

Seriously, this isn't rocket science. It will probably work but I'm not buying in to probably when it comes to safety.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bad Bob and rocky

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I guess the reality, for me, is that it's not worth risking damage to my gun or losing a few fingers just to save a 15 to 25 cent round that is known to be defective. My gun is worth about $600 and my hand is priceless. To me, the safe play is to just throw it away.

Seriously, this isn't rocket science. It will probably work but I'm not buying in to probably when it comes to safety.
Where can I buy hollow points for 15 cents a round? :image035:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
621 Posts
possible? ...yes
likely? ... no
I would imagine that most ka-boombs are related to barrel obstruction
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,648 Posts
possible? ...yes
likely? ... no
I would imagine that most ka-boombs are related to barrel obstruction
Not all, I had a failure when the gun fired prior to full battery as proven by two independent gunsmiths. Of course the gun manufacturer blamed the ammo and the ammo manufacturer blamed the gun. I no longer own a weapon produced by that manufacturer.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
8,501 Posts
Where can I buy hollow points for 15 cents a round? :image035:
OK, 15 cents a round is for ball. I think I pay about 51 cents a round for 9mm HST +P. My hand is worth more to me than 51 cents.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,200 Posts
In the article, Tuohy describes firing ten rounds of ammo with deliberately-induced setback without a kaboom. What he describes are a progression of seven rounds with setbacks from .005" to .035", and an additional three rounds which he basically mangled with a hammer without recording dimensions. He says nothing about a .35' setback (which is over 4 inches, BTW).

He did NOT say that he was using +P loads, nor did he reveal the bullet weight, which could be highly significant.

With the exception of the three mangled rounds, the setbacks he "tested" were not all that "severe". The first three, of .005", .010", and .015", are practically negligible. Even the .035" setback would increase pressure by less than 6% - less than that of a +P. Even if he was using +P to start with, he would not have exceeded +P+ pressures by much, if any.

To deduce from this "test" that bullet setback is not potentially dangerous is absurd. Even if the setbacks he tested had a 1-in-10 chance of causing a kaboom, there is a reasonable chance that he could have gotten through his "test" without incident. There is a reason that manufacturers, handloaders, and knowledgeable shooters are wary of bullet setback.
 
  • Like
Reactions: atctimmy

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,892 Posts
When I read a warning from the ammunition manufacturer or the weapons maker I will call it credible.

There are thousands of conditions that can cuase product failure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,426 Posts
Bullet setback will cause elevated pressure in the round when fired. If the pressure is high enough, it can cause damage to the gun. How much damage is under the influence of many factors.
In some guns under certain circumstances the damage can be dangerous.
This is why your rounds Over All Length is critical when loading or reloading.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,315 Posts
Don't forget that ambient temperature (bullet weight has been mentioned) can make a significant difference. Also, re-loaders need a mention. Even if velocity is within standards the pressure curve is probably not the same as for factory loaded rounds. depending on the powder they're using. Like other accidents, there are usually several factors involved that, taken together, lead to disaster.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
562 Posts
The most likely ( to me ) explanation I've heard goes as follows:

40 S&W seems more prone to kabooms than other cartridges. Reloaded ammo is more apt to kaboom than factory ammo if it was originally fired in a gun so designed that a portion of the chamber leaves the case unsupported. The theory is that the unsupported portion of the case is weakened in the initial firing. The case is then reloaded and, if upon the subsequent firing, the weakened portion of the case happens to again be aligned with the unsupported area of the chamber, the possibility of a kaboom is increased. If bullet setback ( causing increased pressure ) is added to the mix, the possibility of a kaboom is increased further yet.

While you might need to be pretty unlucky to have all of these circumstances line up at the same time, it is within the realm of possibility. That is probably why some folks say they have been reloading for their Glock 22 forever without any problem; while others are convinced of the opposite. Personally, I prefer to err on the side of caution and don't do anything I suspect may contribute to bullet setback, even with factory ammo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
205 Posts
I had just started handloading and double charged (I think) a 45 round, well one time I was on the range and on the 5th shot I had a big kaboom, it blew out my mags floor plate and made a nice mess in my gun, Lucky for me I had a good 1911 and some wrap around pacs, didnt loose my fingers or suffer injuries other then soiled pants and a bum mag.

Its not fun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,464 Posts
I'm always in the "better safe than sorry" camp on these sorts of things. I rechamber a couple of rounds regularly, but I also know what the factory new length is supposed to be on the defense ammo I use and I check for setback regularly (I don't reload, but I'm a machinist so I always have a few pairs of dial calipers laying around).

The particular combination of gun and ammo you use can give very different results from others. In my setup I have to rechamber the same round a couple dozen times before any measurable setback occurs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Would it happen 100%of the time? no.
Is it a cause? yes.

Anytime the area for the combustion of gas is reduced there is going to be higher pressures. And we all know what higher pressure will do.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top