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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Im different. Even though I have it, the older I get, the less inclined I am to feel the need for certain things.....knife fighting and disarming techniques being two of them.
Because, my associations have changed, and my contact with certain people and places have become less required than the things I did or had to do when I was younger.
Kudos to those who desire such endeavors later in life, but I have other interests that are more priority.
These things are more of a sideline interest for me than a priority, most of the time.

Growing old gracefully with my wife, living long enough for my grandkids to remember me fondly when they're old, being healthy, comfortable, secure, and being a decent and honorable human being...those are my true priorities.
 

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I think it is interesting that people of all ages and experience will go on and on about the finer points of gun training and what size gun people need to carry, but they don't want to focus on H2H. It is almost like it is not about self defense, but about the hardware. And it is also almost like they think the gun will get them through every possible scenario.
 

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No, but I watched Denzel Washington in The Equalizer.
 

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I think it is interesting that people of all ages and experience will go on and on about the finer points of gun training and what size gun people need to carry, but they don't want to focus on H2H. It is almost like it is not about self defense, but about the hardware. And it is also almost like they think the gun will get them through every possible scenario.
I agree, but then to be fair, I believe it’s about life priorities, and let’s face it, a handgun is quick fix.

A lot of people have never been in a real bad situation that would give them something else to consider.
 

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I think it is interesting that people of all ages and experience will go on and on about the finer points of gun training and what size gun people need to carry, but they don't want to focus on H2H. It is almost like it is not about self defense, but about the hardware. And it is also almost like they think the gun will get them through every possible scenario.
With flakey knees and a back so bad I look like Neanderthal man when walking, the H2H boat has long sailed for me. At this stage, H2H will never be in my focus.
 

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Personally my opinion is that it is a highly risky maneuver, and very dependent on if things line up for it to even be feasible to execute....distance and positioning ect..

I think some knowledge and training is beneficial from the standpoint that if you did find yourself needing and deciding that is the only way out for you, that at least you have the knowledge.

But knowledge and skill are different of course.

I think it’s good to learn, but honestly, most older people are not going to desire to do the training and reps that give anywhere near a high percentage of success, due to time and interest.
I started as a kid.
 

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I am pushing seventy-five with peripheral neuropathy and arthritis. The orthopedic surgeon wants to replace both knees and then both hips. Outrunning a bad guy or going hand-to-hand isn't in the current self-defense plan.

But then I often surprise myself in critical situations. I have been in ultra slow motion with auditory exclusion a few times. I remember weighing several options, selecting one, and implementing it when the actual incident was over in seconds.
 
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BTW, this idea of taking the weapon offline just long enough to disable is the basic approach of Krav Maga.
Interesting...

That's pretty much the same approach behind Baseball Bat Defense. :)

"The enemy cannot push a button (pull a trigger; wield a knife) if you disable his hand." - Starship Troopers

It helps significantly if you can bat ambidextrously.

Then again, in most situations, it's better to engage them with a firearm at a distance.
 

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But then I often surprise myself in critical situations. I have been in ultra slow motion with auditory exclusion a few times. I remember weighing several options, selecting one, and implementing it when the actual incident was over in seconds.
That describes my recent trip and falling down the stairs. Oh, I tripped, all right, and started going headlong down the stairs, when my brain said, "Nope. We're not falling down the stairs. Instead, we're doing the Time Warp." At that point, I was no longer falling, but rather, floating in three dimensions with a slight velocity towards the foot of the stairs. Three gentle taps with my feet on the stairs and I was properly oriented for a nice, soft landing on my feet, and... Stuck it."

Takes about twenty minutes for my adrenaline rush along with who knows what other body chemicals to get back to normal.

Kind of handy, actually! Nice to know at 58 it can still kick in!

LimaCharlie, thanks for the update, as it looks like I'll probably have another good 17 years of time warp left, if not more. :)
 

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A few threads lately make me pose this as a topic. It appears that for some, going for their own gun is the default move, regardless of distance.

Yes, I do practice simple disarm techniques regularly, and teach them in my CHL certification classes.
I have trained in this in the past, but have not practiced it, and need to be refreshed in this skill.
 
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I find most basic gun and knife disarms very impractical. Who is going to stand right in front of you and press the muzzle of the gun against your forehead? Who is going to do only a single knife thrust, like fencer? Hardly anyone. And why would you want to try to take his weapon? So you can wrestle him over it when he tries to take it back? Because you don't have a weapon of your own? Also, they all tend to rely on the ideas that a person with only a little training can deliver an untelegraphed move with lightning speed and that the defender will just stand there while they do it. I have learned and practiced those techniques, but I would not rely on them.
Without a foundation of the basic you have nothing to build on. You must not have learned and good techniques. The techniques I use, their training means nothing if they put themselves in that position.
 

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I used to practice such things once a month but, when we moved to Wyoming I lost my little group to practice hand to hand with. I am glad I have the knowledge and who knows it may come in handy some day. Without practice though I would be more hesitant to use it as time goes by.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Without a foundation of the basic you have nothing to build on. You must not have learned and good techniques. The techniques I use, their training means nothing if they put themselves in that position.
Yup, the few techniques I have learned and practice rely solely on the principle of action beating reaction. When I teach them, they are always demonstrated first, with the student using a laser trainer pointed at me. No, the demos do not include having the gun pointed at my forehead from two inches away. They are within arm's reach techniques, easy to demo, easy to teach, easy to learn.
 

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This isn’t something I do. But not a bad skill to have.
 

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Just finished a fight club relevant to this topic.

Today we assaulted each other from close distances, the attacker had choice of knife, stick, empty hands; the defender had their edc set up, blue gun and trainer version of the knife they carry.

We rarely train anything gun, besides occasionally getting a gun offline opening up a chance to attack or stuffing someone else’s draw. After today I realize I am the only one who trains it elsewhere, out of the group.

These are guys who regularly participate in FOF, out of the 4,
#1. didn’t even try to use empty hand techniques or create distance, went straight for the draw twice before he dealt with the incoming close quarters knife attack, both times taking multiple fatal stabs. He can protect himself from a knife attack pretty well as long as he doesn’t have the gun option, as soon as he had that, it became all he though about.
Even after he got coaching, his empty hand defense and attacks were far less that he is capable of, he could not stop focusing on wanting to use the gun. Also of importance #1 is the least skilled with a pistol out of the group, yet he still felt compelled to get to it ASAP.

#2 defended with empty hand, but when he came to counter attack it was always really bad form and non effective strikes on poor targets. Which is weird because he does a good job with that any other time, strap that gun on and he can’t function at his usual level. He cleaned it up after coaching, even verbalizing: “I don’t know why I keep skipping a step and trying to draw.” “Yeah, neither do we, you keep losing the fight.”

The majority of the scenarios, if I even drew the gun, it was to cover an already out of the fight bad guy that I dealt with without a tool. I was the only one who used the blade they were carrying. I found that strange too, because for the first year or so this was a knife only focused group.

Give these guys a gun and they choose it over what they were more used to. All of them train gun, but they do infinitely more training with knife. Two of them could not draw gun one handed, they had never or not practiced that often enough. You may be parrying a blade away with one hand while digging for a weapon with the other. I wouldn’t advise it, but if you are going to you better know how.

1. Gun centricity will get you murdered. You can’t just start blasting if it isn’t a lethal threat, you may need to defend yourself before things meet the legal requirement.
2. Empty hand skills are necessary if only to pass or push attacks offline.
3. You better have your hands up in a defensive posture or close to it during the interview stage, someone with training will get to you before you can get your defense up, action is faster than reaction.
 

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I've also practiced knife grappling (with rubber knives). That's a rather terrifying scenario - the one I do is going for the knife and then making the guy stab himself with it. You pretty much have to be ready for getting a few cuts yourself.

I hope to God I never have to try either.
As frequently as I train knife, I never try to disarm a blade. If they have any skill at all...
 
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