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Discussion Starter #1
...shoot center of whatever the biggest target is that you can see.Listening to a Pod cast the other night and one of the commentators made a point that I had not really thought about because it would be seem to be common sense to me.But he said to many people get hung up on shooting center mass and if the center of mass is behind cover they shoot the cover.So he always tells people don't shoot center mass shoot center of whatever the biggest target is that you can see.
 

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...shoot center of whatever the biggest target is that you can see.
That has always been the defintion of COM in the ten years that I have been studying gunfighting.

But he said to many people get hung up on shooting center mass and if the center of mass is behind cover they shoot the cover.
This goes against my experience. What I have seen is people so locked in on shooting COM of what is exposed that they forget that they can shoot through concealment.

Who was the guy in the podcast?
 

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Just out of a class at USShooting Academy, my instructors basically said the same thing. Their first comments were related to COM (heart, lungs) but then expanded to what is available. Some of our practical was starting at routine COM and then walking our shots up or down.

Was a very interesting concept compared to what I was first taught. One of my instructors was a 13 yr active police. His comment was shoot what is available.
 

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That has always been the defintion of COM in the ten years that I have been studying gunfighting.
I'm with Roger, everything I've been taught is to shoot at the center of whatever portion of the assailant is available.

This goes against my experience. What I have seen is people so locked in on shooting COM of what is exposed that they forget that they can shoot through concealment.
That, or they just haven't picked up on the fact that most things are concealment, rather than cover.
 

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As has been said, Center of Mass means exactly that, center of mass, not center of body. It is the middle area of the target presented to you; nothing more, nothing less. The pod caster should brush up on his basic definitions...
 

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This is something I'm not going to worry about. Most of what might be assumed to be cover will only work against a BB gun. Training puts those first few rounds at the hidden COM downrange in less than 2 seconds. If the threat still exists, the 'thinking' has had a moment to analyse the situation and find a final solution.
 

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I thought that went without saying. Of course you aim for the center of whatever mass is available...
 

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shoot at the middle of what is available at that critical moment is how I was taught and trained. If there is no viable target, no shot.
 

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That has always been the defintion of COM in the ten years that I have been studying gunfighting.
Ditto. ^^

The term "Mass" is not defined as 'chest' area.
It is defined as being the central most are of the target as viewable and available.

Below is an example of as much for folk, who have not posted in this thread, that might be unsure/confused...

Target


Where is the Center of Mass?

Central area as amongst target that is viewable and available, and is thus easiest to sight (!) which results in increased hit probability.


I would not shoot through cover but under specific situational circumstances.
Not to say that shooting through cover is always going to be a bad idea or not possible, but I would not encourage it as an item to rely on or expect to be an available option.

- Janq

Image Credit:
Base target image as modified is borrowed from 'SigMadMan'.
How is your Sig zeroed? (Pics and Math) - Topic Powered by Eve Community
 

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Gobble like a turkey and when they look shoot em in the head
 

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Shooting through concealment is wise if you KNOW the BG is behind it and IF you have enough ammo to spare the shots. Hollowpoints laugh at interrior walls which hardly put up any resistance much less your average door. I have a clip of ball ammo in my safe just for this purpose if it ever became necessary
 

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Center of Mass = Center of any part of the target you can see...:yup:
 

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Guys name is Lawdog has a blog here The LawDog Files he mentions a specific incident in which a LEO shot several shots into the engine block of a car because the guy was behind the car and the guy was shooting for center of the body
For the most part Lawdog is a good source of info. I would definitely not go so far as to say thet he is wrong or anything like that. Personal experiences can definitely vary.

In FOF that I have witnesesed and participated in, I have seen good guys so focus on making the high precision shot on the COM of what is just barely exposed that they forget that you can just shoot through things like doors, dry wall, and couches. I have watched 15 students in a row stand there with hard focus on the front sight trying to shoot nothing more than a hand/gun and a bobbing back and forth 1/8 section of the head/eye.

We did a demo afterwards on just stepping in and taking shots right through the couch where the adversary was fighting from. You should have seen the look on the students faces. It was honestly something that they had not considered.

They all knew the differences between cover and concealment, but the competion based training of their past made them "want" that high precision shot with hard focus on the front sight.
 

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Seems common sense to me. You don't shoot at a part of the body that has sufficient cover to deflect the bullet.?
 

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Seems common sense to me. You don't shoot at a part of the body that has sufficient cover to deflect the bullet.?
I am not sure if this is aimed at my story.

Just in case it is, the couch was nothing more than concealment.....not cover.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
There is defiantly a difference between cover and concealment and I am sure Lawdog knows it. Like I said he mentioned a specific case in which the bad guy took cover behind the front of the car where the engine was and the LEO was so focused on COM that he wasted his ammo shooting up the engine block instead of shooting a better target that he could hit.
Sweatnbullets you make a good point also you can also get so focused on hitting a target the you fail to consider that some things you can shoot through but an engine is not one of those things unless you have a VERY powerful rifle such as a .50
 
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