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Excellent article!!! This should become a "sticky"!
 

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This is a great read. One thing that makes it so much more difficult IMO is the fact that it's a likely domestic issue. So many times, abused wives end up backing their abusive husband's stories, whether out of fear or some other reason. I could easily see a situation where you are completely justified but the victim (girl) ends up backing her husband anyway which puts you in the crosshairs.

Situations of domestic abuse are just very awkward because of the way the victims can oftentimes react.
 

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We often hear the very sound advice of not talking to the police. This account would encourage me to add to that, don't talk to the press.
 

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It is a good article and I hope people read it. OTOH, there's almost nothing new in there (but it's nice to have all in one place).

These are exactly the reasons that I consider...and frequently offer here...on why I would rather retreat whenever possible rather than..."even if a legitimate draw/shoot" I'd pass if I could. ESPECIALLY the legal fee ones which this guy recognized but was spared. You really dont know how that will go. esp if you are in a state where there could still be civil action.

This was a good Samaritan act. I believe he saved this woman. I think, hope, I would have done the same. Altho I probably would not have had my gun drawn before I demanded he stop. But I'm not Monday morning quarterbacking...I wasnt there and maybe that decision would be my last.
 

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You can go over in your head and train for what to do and what to say, but when it actually goes down, you've no idea how you're going to react. People as a whole are unpredictable and dangerous, "woulda shoulda coulda" won't work for the first, second or even third time you're in a situation because each situation will be different and will involve different individuals with different mindsets. That's especially true for a civilian who doesn't face a situation every time they go out on patrol or are standing guard at an outpost.

The more time you try to go over in your head "if a, then b, if not a or b, then c", the less time you're going to have to gain control of the situation. It's also more time for an attacker to make their next move. Keeping aware of your surroundings and keeping your finger off the trigger until it's go time, is about the best any of us are ever going to be able to do. You're going to get grilled mercilessly no matter how restrained you are or how good a shoot was, so you might as well not even bother going over that in your head. That's your lawyers' job. You do the best you can, avoid unnecessary bloodshed if it's at all possible, and shut your mouth with exception of "officer, I'm a permit holder and I felt an immediate and unavoidable danger to myself/the other person". After that, the dice are going to roll.
 

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You can go over in your head and train for what to do and what to say, but when it actually goes down, you've no idea how you're going to react. People as a whole are unpredictable and dangerous, "woulda shoulda coulda" won't work for the first, second or even third time you're in a situation because each situation will be different and will involve different individuals with different mindsets. That's especially true for a civilian who doesn't face a situation every time they go out on patrol or are standing guard at an outpost.

The more time you try to go over in your head "if a, then b, if not a or b, then c", the less time you're going to have to gain control of the situation. It's also more time for an attacker to make their next move. Keeping aware of your surroundings and keeping your finger off the trigger until it's go time, is about the best any of us are ever going to be able to do. You're going to get grilled mercilessly no matter how restrained you are or how good a shoot was, so you might as well not even bother going over that in your head. That's your lawyers' job. You do the best you can, avoid unnecessary bloodshed if it's at all possible, and shut your mouth with exception of "officer, I'm a permit holder and I felt an immediate and unavoidable danger to myself/the other person". After that, the dice are going to roll.
Mental rehearsals and Force-on-Force training refute those assertions, at least in my experience.
 

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Article offers a good counterpoint also, to those who often declare, "If I clear leather, I'm firing." (Tho they do qualify that if the threat stops before they fire, that's fine, no shots fired.)

This guy was prepared to fire, I'm sure. I think he acted properly. There was no immediate lethal threat, yet there was legitimate reason to draw. (I guess one could argue the next punch could have killed the woman but this is not an uncommon situation unfortunately but IMO it goes more to 'gross bodily harm' which is also legit in most or all states.)
 

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What shape would the woman be in if he had not gone to help? Dead or crippled? I have always been told good guys finish last. Its a shame that a good guy has to be put through the crap he had to go through. I guess it will make you think before you act.
 

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Mental rehearsals and Force-on-Force training refute those assertions, at least in my experience.
They can help, Mike. That kind of training at the very least can prevent you from acting like a confused, headless chicken which very well may get you killed. However, those are set up scenarios. Realistic, certainly, but again the world is one big spinning ball of unknowns. I can also say that some of those training programs are a bit too "cop-centric" if you understand what I mean. That same, merciless prosecutor that the good samaritan in the OP faced is the same person that would love to fry you for acting too police-like.
 

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They can help, Mike. That kind of training at the very least can prevent you from acting like a confused, headless chicken which very well may get you killed. However, those are set up scenarios. Realistic, certainly, but again the world is one big spinning ball of unknowns. I can also say that some of those training programs are a bit too "cop-centric" if you understand what I mean. That same, merciless prosecutor that the good samaritan in the OP faced is the same person that would love to fry you for acting too police-like.
Again, I was speaking strictly from my own experience and training. I have been involved in four different situations since I started carrying that I have no doubt were favorable influenced by training I have undergone and preparations I have made. No one got shot, three people went to jail (not me), and I prevailed against thugs who intended to do me harm.
 

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Again, I was speaking strictly from my own experience and training. I have been involved in four different situations since I started carrying that I have no doubt were favorable influenced by training I have undergone and preparations I have made. No one got shot, three people went to jail (not me), and I prevailed against thugs who intended to do me harm.
That's awesome, and I in no way meant for my counter-argument to say that training doesn't mean much. I think everyone should take training they are physically able to take and afford.
 

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There was absolutely NO REASON why the writer of that article (or the subject of it) had to draw his firearm. A simple confrontation, perhaps video, while calling 911 would have sufficed. Does anyone really think the guy would have kept beating the woman under those circumstances?
 

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There was absolutely NO REASON why the writer of that article (or the subject of it) had to draw his firearm. A simple confrontation, perhaps video, while calling 911 would have sufficed. Does anyone really think the guy would have kept beating the woman under those circumstances?
Actually yeah, I think it's quite possible. You forget you've got guys out there committing crimes while live streaming and gloating. People have gotten screwed up, they just at some point stopped caring. So yeah, that guy very well may have taunted the person and kept slugging his lady. He was already an ass for doing so, he might as well continue being one whether a camera is rolling or not.
 

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I would have called 911 also, but in light of what he says, I will definitely think twice about intervening if anything like this ever comes up for me.

The words of the article that made the most impression were: "the victim who turned on us".

Even if you are saving someone from great bodily harm, they may end up being the one that sends you to prison for helping them. I also feel like I am, on some level, "my brother's keeper". We've discussed domestic-type situations here before, though, and noted the number of times that officers intervene only to have the victim turn on them and take the side of the abuser.

That type of situation seems like it compounds the risks of getting involved. How do you determine whether you are witnessing a situation like the one in this article, or something more like the Kitty Genovese story? There is a line somewhere between these two, and I wouldn't even begin to know where that line is. It seems worthwhile to put some time into trying to figure it out, though.
 

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I would have pulled up, called 911 and maybe leaned on the horn or car alarm to attract attention....IMO, what he did was wrong......he became a cop in that instant.
 
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