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Empty chamber?



Only when it's in the gun safe.
...or when you're cleaning the firearm! <img src="http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/images/smilies/vol_1/image035.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Image035" class="inlineimg" />

(edit: Ah, man! @1942bull beat me to it. <img src="http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/images/smilies/vol_1/mad.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Mad" class="inlineimg" />


You're supposed to clean them?







Just kidding.

I thought that was a given. (that it's empty when cleaning) My bad.
 

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You're supposed to clean them?







Just kidding.

I thought that was a given. (that it's empty when cleaning) My bad.
Given the number of people who have NDs cleaning their guns, I'm not sure. What I haven't figured out is exactly how to clean a gun that's chambered.
 

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Like I said in an earlier thread today, it's like that movie Idiocracy is slowly but surely becoming true.
I have a friend I keep telling this to. He hasn't seen the movie yet despite my repeated suggestions that he watch it. :yup:
 

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Given the number of people who have NDs cleaning their guns, I'm not sure. What I haven't figured out is exactly how to clean a gun that's chambered.
It's a physical impossibility.
 
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Given the number of people who have NDs cleaning their guns, I'm not sure. What I haven't figured out is exactly how to clean a gun that's chambered.
I think the ND and resulting death while cleaning a firearm is something police agencies claim to cover up officer suicides. Sadly.
 

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When in the presence of my 3 year old granddaughter, I keep the chamber empty.
Not me!
I just kept a close watch, didn't display the pistol, and taught her gun safety.
It's the same thing I did with her mother.
 

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The only time in the last decade a round has not been in the chamber is during cleaning or after the last round was fired while at the range.
 

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I carry with all five chambers loaded!

But I do like to just remind people when this topic comes up that the Israeli forces and the Russian Spetsnaz carry with empty chambers and those people are prepared for gunfights! So I try to not be so purist.
That's actually not true. I read a really good write-up on it a couple years back and to summarize what was said

Israeli carry started when the IDF was initially formed. They had people with all different levels of training. Their guns were whatever they could get some had safeties some didn't have safeties and they didn't even have holsters for all of them.

They needed a common method that they could train everybody to use so they went with empty chamber rack on the draw. What we now call Israeli carry.

Now that Isreal has modernized its forces and is able to supply them with common firearms they do not cary with an empty chamber. I mean maybe some of their rear Echelon troops but the guys that are on the front lines carry ready to go.

ETA here's the post I referenced it was posted by a poster named archangel on thr about 10 years ago.

Since the Israelis are reflexively brought up every time someone mentions carrying with an empty chamber, maybe we should look at why they carry (or carried) with an empty chamber.

When the Israeli Defense Force was orginally formed back in the 40s, they were armed with whatever weapons they, as a nation, could quickly acquire. This meant that their pistols were a mish-mash of different designs. Some single action, some double action, some with safeties, some without. Many were not drop safe. Many did not have holsters.*

They needed one simple method to train a large number of people, many of them inexpereinced in the use of arms, regardless of what weapon they had. The result was to carry with the chamber empty and rack on the draw. This method:

1) works regardless of the gun's design (SA, DA, safety, no safety)
2) prevents a non-drop-safe gun from going off if dropped (a real possibility when you just stick it in your waistband because you don't have a holster)
3) avoids the possibility of someone not accustomed to a safety sticking a loaded, cocked, and unlocked single action into their waistband

It is important to note that this method IS A COMPROMISE.*

There is no tactical advantage to be gained from carrying this way. In fact there is a tactical disadvantage, because it requires both hands. With a modern firearm, there is no safety advantage to be gained from carrying chamber empty, either. (One possible exception to this is someone trying to shoot you with your own gun, but if you are planning your carry method based on someone stealing your*concealed*gun from you before you can react, perhaps you should reconsider carrying a gun.)

If you need to use a gun in self defense, you're already behind the curve because:
A) You didn't see the situation coming in time to avoid it.
B) You weren't able to find and take and escape from the situation once it started.
C) You weren't able to control or de-escalate the situation before a gun became your only option.
D) You need a gun RIGHT NOW.
E) Your gun is still in it's holster (because you don't draw before you need it, right?)

Why put yourself at a further disadvantage by having that holstered gun unloaded as well?

You are not a member of the IDF. You are not mandated to carry your gun in a less-than-optimal manner. Why would you*choose*to handicap yourself this way? Why would you carry in a manner that may require more hands than you'll have available? That takes more time to deploy? That precludes the ability to fire from retention? That*requiresputting the gun out there in a place that's*badfor retention?*

The Israelis don't carry chamber empty becasue it's tacti-cool. It was a compromise that gained a bit of needed safety at the cost of tactical advantage. Today, now that they have standardized, modern pistols, many Israelis (like SWAT and special forces units) do carry with a loaded chamber.
 

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I carry chambered with one exception - and that is when the gun would physically be pointing at people just by carrying.

For example, a shoulder holster I have carries horizontally. I don't use it too much but sometimes circumstances exist where I do. I just can't have a gun aiming at people, despite the fact that I know in the holster, and with the manual safety engaged it won't fire. Physiologically, I can't have my gun aimed at people and be chambered.

One of my pocket pistols (sub compact 9) tends to lay flat in my pocket which means when I sit say in a restaurant, it can aim at people. So that causes a problem for me. Since its in a sleeve, I will frequently temporarily put it in IWB for sitting.

Fortunately my LCR 327 in the Remora holster tends to aim down to the right when I am sitting, and as long as I position myself well, its not an issue.

I know that many people are comfortable with carried guns aiming at people and so carry chambered; I just can't get over that feeling.
 

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I carry chambered with one exception - and that is when the gun would physically be pointing at people just by carrying.

For example, a shoulder holster I have carries horizontally. I don't use it too much but sometimes circumstances exist where I do. I just can't have a gun aiming at people, despite the fact that I know in the holster, and with the manual safety engaged it won't fire. Physiologically, I can't have my gun aimed at people and be chambered.

One of my pocket pistols (sub compact 9) tends to lay flat in my pocket which means when I sit say in a restaurant, it can aim at people. So that causes a problem for me. Since its in a sleeve, I will frequently temporarily put it in IWB for sitting.

Fortunately my LCR 327 in the Remora holster tends to aim down to the right when I am sitting, and as long as I position myself well, its not an issue.

I know that many people are comfortable with carried guns aiming at people and so carry chambered; I just can't get over that feeling.
There's only one way you're going to get over that feeling
 

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I carry with all five chambers loaded!

But I do like to just remind people when this topic comes up that the Israeli forces and the Russian Spetsnaz carry with empty chambers and those people are prepared for gunfights! So I try to not be so purist.
I don't believe they are still doing that.
 
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